Could we be wrong?

Yes, that’s what I’m trying to say!

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Hey guys, or mods…if it’s okay, I think maybe we should close up this thread. I don’t want anyone who isn’t convinced of the pre trib view, or just has questions / trying to understand it, getting let go or leaving on their own. It’s not a salvation issue, so I can just study on my own. Thanks everyone for all the links and info though…just want all of us brothers and sisters to stay together in these last days, and certainly want to keep our precious forum open :heart:Also, sorry for opening up this can of worms!..maybe someday I will be just as convinced as some of you all… I got a ways to go & i’m behind most of you with studying the scriptures. Be blessed :heart::heart::heart:

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In 1 Thessalonians 4:17, if you read the verses preceding, HE doesn’t say before or during the tribulation, in fact HE doesn’t say at all. HE does say in verse 5:4 that the day of destruction doesn’t come on us like a thief in the night…(to me, meaning, but to those not in HIM, it will.) I actually didn’t know that there was a rule on this platform that people can’t have different perspectives about the last days and I also don’t see where it says JESUS comes back 3 times.

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Don’t worry, I’m a big girl. Ironically, I haven’t gotten any emails from this forum and when I did I saw your post. I was a pretrib believer for years but I’m not now at all and I don’t think it’s a salvation issue either. There isn’t any pastor or person I agree with on everything 100%, not even my husband so I thought we could talk about it and I want people to prepare for the worst and pray for the best because JESUS will keep us and some of us will probably be martyred for HIS Name. Either way, we win. Thanks for sharing.

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Wow. You sure lit a fuse 1jewel.

A lot of info to absorb if you have the time and mental endurance.

Only my take on this. Looking at the entirety of Scripture, How does The Father operate with His Creation? I am sure you can find, especially in Proverbs where there is a clear way God deals with two groups. The righteous and the wicked. I personally see three groups in the world. Also reference Malachi 3:18.

The saved. The wicked. The lost. We are one of those three.

There are God’s true worshippers as I prefer to call those truly born again.
There are those who I believe will always be wicked much like most of the Pharisees and Saduccees. Jesus and John the baptist made it clear there is a race of the Devil.
Obviously, the multitude who sought Him with need and repentant hearts looking for the truth. However, in the parable of the seed and soil, not all find their full way to salvation.

As you may have heard Pastor JD mention many examples of types of raptures in the Scripture. Enoch was taken much like Elijah. Sodom and Gomorrah. Noah. The Exodus. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. Philip and the Eunuch in Acts 8. (Please no picking these apart they are what they are you dont have to agree)

But the one thing that stands out to me is when Jesus mentioned what it will be like before His return. It would be like the days of Noah and the days of Lot. The synopsis is that everything would be business as usual. Just because we are wearing masks and fighting over vaccines does not mean we have not acclimated to this new world system. We are still buying and selling. Planting and building. Marrying and being given in marriage (LG community).

Then He tells us that we must be ready or else That Day will come on us like a trap. Warned but without warning for those who disbelieve. We who have ears to hear and eyes to see are considered watchmen.

The Tribulation is a seven year period. Probably not exactly seven years as the days will be shortened but it has a clear initiation and conclusion.

So if we know He will return after seven years, how can it be unexpected? There has to be an event that is unexpected first for us to waiting for. Jesus also made it clear that it would be A Day like no other. There will be no mistake that something horrible has changed. Why would He commission the Prophets to warn and the watch\men to warn. It is to protect those who may be in harms way of a catastrophe approaching.

God has always been trying to protect us from harm. We however are constantly ignoring His warnings in this life and we usually suffer for it. I stress this life because Jesus said in this world or this life we will have tribulation, but The Judgment of God is not for those who have been saved by The Blood of Jesus.

When we used the phrase saved, what were we saved from? Hell obviously, but really it was The Father’s Judgment of wickedness. Though we may still sin in our born again state, we were saved from Judgement because we chose The Cross over our own desire to live life apart from Him. We will still suffer in this life because God has not judged the wicked yet.

That is what The Tribulation is for. And even in the midst of His Judgement, He is giving the wicked and the lost one last chance to choose the right and reject the wrong. There is no proof of a watered down first half of His judgement for His sheep. Why would a loving Shepherd save His sheep from the wolf to throw them in the fire?

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Thanks Ken. The reason I asked is because I never heard looking at the original generation as a Jewish generation. And as that period came to a close in 1988, to add 70 years as the average length of man’s life (a general life span use of generation) after an original Jewish generation turned out not be to the rapture event timeframe, was an approach i have never heard before. Thanks for explaining that. It makes sense as you have laid it out.

I remember reading John Macarthur’s book: The Second Coming. In that, he mentioned that 1988 really came as a shock…as it came and went. At that point many theologians threw in the towel on thinking about the fig tree as Israel. Many were disillusioned. MacArthur makes the case that it certainly is not wise to date set (not that we are…and i think keeping an open mind is good). And he does not and uses 1988 as a case in point. But when I read that i thought, “How does John know a generation is 40 years in the bible? And does that actually eliminate the fig tree as Israel?” To me, that seemed to quick to cut bait and run. To me, it seemed like what the US might do, like you know: Baby Boomer, Gen X, Gen Y, Gen Z etc. Every 40 years I believe. Like we may have been using marketing years or something. So i tried to find some research on that.

The best thing i came across i’d like to share. It is pretty good i think. It suggested 2018 as a favored rapture date. It gave reasons why. But how it looks at the bible and biblical generation as used in scripture is I think the most thorough account of it i have seen. You may have different ways of looking at this though. Would you say the case this paper makes about biblical generation use is how you would also understand? Or might you see it differently?

One reason I am asking is because it looks like there are a few options as how to view generation. But the timeframes ends close to your tally…but just beyond…2068. Would you ever consider a generation start period from 1967? I’ve seen some do that. Would you ever consider it a proper use of generation to start at that later date? Blessings.

Go read dispensational truths by clarance Larkin -it will enlighten you - blessings

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Actually only two types not 3 - saved and unsaved

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Hence why I said " I personally see"

The Crucifixion:

One Criminal - Lost
One Criminal - Wicked

Jesus Christ - The Righteous

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Ken, I am confused. Bear in mind I hate math/numbers. Wouldn’t that mean folks would have to be living to be 120 years to be the generation alive if it started count at 1948? When I looked it up I found there was only one woman recorded who lived to be that age (she’s gone now).

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Dispensations are a lie and I’m wondering why my post was tagged and deleted for responding kindly? No one answered about Isaiah 26:20 either? Thank you for the recommendation but I believe we’ve always been in the age of grace since the fall.

Well actually you had my post deleted my position and the Scripture references. Isaiah 26:20? Are you all like the cancel culture… you delete and cancel logical responses that don’t agree with your perspective?

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@jasonacts177 @Twi Perhaps you could provide some enlightenment. :blush:

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I seconded your request to lock this thread for good.

@Twi and @jasonacts177, do you have admin rights to lock thread instead of flagging here and there?

A reminder:

Intentional Promotion of False Teaching:

Friendly reminder that it is absolutely reasonable and permissible to post questions and comments about the Bible, specific teachings, as well as lovingly disagree on topics. It is not acceptable to intentionally post unsound doctrine and promote false teaching. The latter behavior will result in a deletion and ban, potentially without a warning.

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Wow.

Pastor Andy Woods has some wonderful videos on the topic of dispensations and if you haven’t seen any of them, I would highly recommend watching them. He is a wonderful teacher.

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@Violet , some ppl are dead set and insisted on their belief system. There are commentators challenged Andy Woods Rapture series which you can see for yourself in his Youtube channel. It’s never ending fighting online!

The opposing force is Covenant Theology by Reformers:

Disagreement exists between covenant theology and dispensationalism regarding the meaning of revelation. Covenant theology views the New Testament as the key to interpreting the Old Testament. Therefore, concepts such as the biblical covenants and promises to Israel are believed to be interpreted by the New Testament as applying to the church, which is made up of believing Jews and Gentiles throughout both the Old and New Testament.

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I will circle back tomorrow for a burger today. Violet I am over my head in requests and will send a response Friday. God Bless You!
Ken

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Additionally, In Matthew 24 and 25, The head of the house, the slave and 5 five of the virgins who did as they ought to have done were not sent to judgment. They did as their Master pleased and no indication was given that they saw any tribulation. They were praised and rewarded with what was assigned and prepared for them.

We know the slave who got drunk with the drunkards was sent to a place with weeping and gnashing of teeth and the other 5 virgins had the door shut and locked while they frantically looked for oil and were not able to enter the wedding celebration.

We must know who our Lord is and have His discernment to understand the time we are in.
Lets be clear and honest. We may all face our own personal rapture before that day.

So why worry or debate about it?

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As per the request of the original poster, this thread has been locked.