I read the King James. in the King James it’s “falling away”. People who want to change the meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 go to the Geneva Bible because it translates apostasia as “depature” so they can claim it’s proof that the pretrib rapture precedes the antichrist. I think that’s unsound unless you really want to say that every other translation including the King James is wrong, and not a small amount wrong, but as in, change the meaning of the entire verse wrong.
But considering the context not making sense (the rapture can’t happen until the rapture?), and almost every other bible translation translating it as a departure from faith not a departure from earth…
I think the Geneva is the outlier there.
Now if you want to say the restrainer is the church, using 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7… okay fine at least you’re not saying every other translation but the Geneva is wrong and that we don’t all have the word of God when we read the bible.
What a joke, going back to your “fundamentals” when this vaccine is completely new and would not have anything to do with your old outdated schoolbooks. Again, experts in immunology from top universities like Yale and from other countries are diametrically opposed to your pompous opinions.
Second, the only one without any spiritual discernment or correct bible interpretation rules is you. Apostasia was translated before even the King James as the departure. The Catholics are the ones who influenced the falling away business because they were insinuating that the protestants were the ones “falling away.” It was political and that has continued until this day. Lazy dictionary editors did not go back and study the original meaning of the word. Go back to Andy Woods site and look at the Rapture series. The later ones, a few weeks back, go in depth on why Matt 24 and 25 are not AT ALL about the rapture, but about the 7 year tribulation. Just because something “seems” like another verse somewhere else doesn’t make it so. That is lousy hermeneutics and is not even logical. Have you never heard of context?
So you like JD’s prophecy update. Great. Why are YOU in this forum sowing discord, contradicting him and other more competent actual scholars with personal idiosyncratic illogical bible interpretation that is mid-trib or whatever? It’s NOT a comment section in a public forum. It’s rude and undermining to his ministry teaching. Having some differences is fine, but flooding with contradictory doctrine and inflammatory BS fake science opinions on vaccines when he said he wouldn’t take it himself is calculated and wrong.
What component in the vaccine would reverse transcribe mRNA into DNA, and what component would integrate that DNA into your DNA?
mRNA can’t just unzip your DNA and insert itself.
Second, again, it fails to make sense in context.
“2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
Here’s how viewing apostasia as the rapture changes that.
“2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and we be gathered together unto him first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
“the rapture shall not come, except the rapture happen first”
How can Paul make a conditional statement with the rapture being it’s own prerequisite condition?
It is not helping Andy Woods’ case when he outright says he’s interpreting that way to use as a proof text for his doctrine (in an interview I’m watching). That’s Eisegesis. He’s going into it with an agenda.
I have waited several days before commenting in this thread because I found the latest Prophecy Update disturbing. It is possibly just the dogmatic tone with which a number of connections were made. I pray that what follows is received with a spirit of prayerful consideration. Oh Lord, here goes …
The information on the vaccine (not) being the mark of the beast was all over the place and very unclear. The entire DNA being causal argument I disagree with and is IMO doctrinally dangerous. As @jay has clearly pointed out in this thread, this stance causes all kinds of salvation problems as it condemns those who have had their DNA altered through no fault of their own. Think of it like this, we each may believe our DNA is pure, but how is this verified? Perhaps we have each ingested a little too much environmental glyphosate or micro-plastics or had a little too much microwave exposure or been exposed to some other agent (e.g., HPV) that damages DNA? At what point does the extent of DNA damage remove you from the book of life? I will state this again in simple form: relying on DNA purity for salvation is IMO tantamount to heresy as it is fundamentally anti-Christ i.e., it subverts the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith. I would be interested in seeing others in this thread take on that particular discussion.
Then there was the matter of the mark being “forced and coerced” that appears to be based on the KJV word “causeth” (Rev. 13:16) but was not explored further. Firstly, the word here (Strong’s 4160 poieó ►) has a huge number of meanings. Even this particular form definition (ποιεῖ poiei) occurs 31 times in the Word and this form alone is variously rendered as “bring forth,” “do,” “give,” “make,” “keep,” “transgress,” “exercise,” and “cause.” The reference in this passage is made in relation to the second beast (false prophet), thus it is entirely possible that what is referred to here is the papacy encouraging RCC members to take the mark i.e., the “all” is contextual. As has been pointed out elsewhere on these forums, it is simply against scripture for the “all” to imply the entire global populace, as otherwise there would be no tribulation saints. In any case, the idea of forcing and coercion runs counter to that of the mark representing a pledge of allegiance to someone other than God. If people can be coerced to forcibly receive the mark then one’s salvation can be stolen by force. This line of reasoning worries me. Comparisons with Ezekiel 9:4-7?
The rapture being “explained” as an alien abduction is also something I disagree with as it creates more problems than it solves. Explain to me the Galactic Federation and take time going over the details of a scale of proportion that is outside human comprehension. One cannot hold in one’s mind the incalculable vastness of just the Milky Way, which is essentially doing math with numbers at e17+. It is especially difficult to weave the manifold aspects of the alien idea into the unfolding humanist narrative we are witnessing issuing from the NWO/RCC et al. Humanist means human-centric i.e., man rather than God, not man + aliens + Galactic Federation + whatever rather than God. The more moving parts a theory has the less believable it is. The believability quotient for the masses is quite low i.e., only the most rudimentary theories can be sold as believable, thus A is Z is far more effective, than A+B+C+? is Z. Remember, whatever narrative is used by the NWO/RCC the objective is convincing as many global citizens as possible. Contrast this with the “Satan is not stupid” remark and it begins to look a lot like either Satan is stupid, or he inhabits the adjacent state of lunacy.
This narrative then led into transhumanism which is more about man as God and again does not work in well with the humanist narrative we are witnessing. One cannot be both humanist and transhumanist as this is an axiomatic divide. The former revels in being human, while the latter eschews it. A decent visual exploration of a transhumanist future can be found illustrated in the H+ YouTube series. The 4th industrial revolution defined as a “fusion of technologies that is blurring the lines between the physical, digital, and biological spheres” (Source) is not necessarily transhumanist but is more about unifying global citizenship via a single identity a la ID2020. Advertising the “biological” aspect as being DNA is largely misguided. Biological identity comes in a host of recognition forms, many of which we have today e.g., fingerprint, face, iris, voice, and numerous other biometrics, one of which (albeit a significant one) is DNA. Transhumanism deals primarily with augmentation that extends or blurs the boundary of what is considered human. Development in this area has been a long, slow, process. The irony here is that biometrics are useful humanist forms of identity. Transhumanism messes with the boundaries of identification and makes meaningful biometrics more difficult, rather than more effective. It may well be that under the beast system the elites will more fully pursue transhumanism, but it is likely the masses will be humanist. A system where everyone is a god does not work too well. The gods need their minions, otherwise it is difficult to embody the idealogy and reality of godhood. I will just add one last point to this humanist vs transhumanist line of reasoning. Humanism is here now, today, and can fulfil the vast majority of prophetic requirements. Transhumanism on the other hand is in its infancy and likely requires years, if not the best part of a decade, to become more fully developed and widespread. Those pushing the transhumanism wheelbarrow in terms of prophecy I suggest have a lot more pushing to do and for quite some time yet.
These are my thoughts. I would be grateful if others would clearly articulate their thoughts on these matters. I would be especially indebted to anyone providing correction to any wayward thinking I may be exhibiting. I still praise God for pastor Farag and look forward to his prophecy updates and sermons, as well as this online community.
God bless.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2814-7
They have to publish peer reviewed articles in journals, on their trials when they’re showing that it is safe and effective.
This shows a list of ingredients in the vaccine: Comirnaty and Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | FDA
The key words to look for if you’re looking to see if something can alter your DNA are “reverse transcriptase”, “integrase” and “retrovirus” or “retroviral” particularly “retroviral vector” If you ever see a vaccine that lists reverse transcriptase or integrase in its ingredients or uses a herpesvirus, lentivirus (like HIV), papillomavirus (like HPV), or influenza virus vector… stay as far away from it as possible, those can change your DNA, and I don’t say this as in I think it’d make you unsavable, but that’s a cancer risk.
and also Reassuring Data for Pfizer’s COVID-19 Vaccine | Office for Science and Society - McGill University
Is this the beginning of an mRNA vaccine revolution? | Adam Finn | The Guardian
for more layman terminology.
You are 100% right that it is very much possible for them to make a vaccine that does modify your DNA. an mRNA vaccine that includes reverse transcriptase and integrase will be able to do that, or just packaging a vaccine in a modified retrovirus. In fact, they’ve used retrovirus vectors to specifically edit a cell’s DNA, it’s not even really disguised as a vaccine it’s just “gene therapy”.
I’m not disagreeing that they have the technology to do that or that they would not ever do that.
I’m just saying that these particular vaccines don’t have the necessary components.
and I just want to reiterate that while this vaccine doesn’t change genomes, It’s still a bad vaccine, mRNA vaccines are bad immunology because you’re having a person’s own cells put a “kill me” flag on their own surface.
So I’m not at all surprised when there’s allergic reactions even though the vaccine contains no preservatives (even though Pfizer seems to be surprised by that since the vaccine contains no animal products or preservatives which are usually the culprits that cause allergic reactions to vaccines… but the cause of these allergic reactions is… your own cells painting a kill me target on themselves), and why bell’s palsy has been a reported side effect, and that is again, because of how the vaccine works by making your own immune system target your own cells after they express a viral protein on their surface.
It’s the dumbest immunology you could think of.to make your immune system target your own cells.
Darn…
Someone needs to write that in every post in this Forum. If not this is going to be a box plenty of cats and dogs.
I bet they are putting something in the water. Dontknow what it is but its hitting hard around.
God Bless
Oh for sure, rapture timing is such a minor doctrine, we can disagree on things but we should be willing to change eschatology views in mid air.
why I even got bent out of shape is because changing the translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 in such a way that it changes the meaning of the verse so dramatically makes this implication that the word of God has not been preserved at least in meaning, that what we have in our hands is not the word of God and perfect but contains serious errors. Just imagine how many doctrines we could have wrong, even important ones like salvation through grace, if the translations were done wrong. The most essential doctrine is that the bible is the word of God and is truth, because with us not being eyewitnesses to the death and resurrection of Jesus, it’s all we really have to go on for our faith!
I’m not so dogmatic about KJV only, I use the KJV, as I’ve been told it’s a good translation, and it serves well enough for my purposes, but if someone wants to use ESV or NKJV or something I’m not going to rebuke them for that. I’ve heard there’s some weird translations out there but I haven’t really looked into them to see if they’re as bad as people claim they are or not. My church uses KJV, I use KJV although I’ve read NIV as well and I’ve compared verse to verse in ESV and nothing about the ESV has stood out as being bad. As long as it’s the word of God and you can learn about the gospel in it, that’s good enough I’d hope.
Hello, you guys are (fill in the blanks) till cows come home.
Listen to what this sister said in this video: Time is short!
Great!..That lady is not falling to any blablablablabla uh? Sh’e is just standing firmly upon the rock.
WOW !!! now that’s a statement…
The bible is the word of God, it is not God the WORD, if every bible was removed from the face of the earth, the Holy Spirit will still bring man to salvation. There were no KJV bibles when God saved Abraham.
Years ago I found myself in bible idolatry, and have repented of it, I read the KJV but I was saved with a (Good News for Modern Man) by the Holy Spirit. I had bought it from a drug store in Boston, on a lark, being an atheist at the time.
Warmly Doc
JD talked about this several months ago. I would recommend watching that update to see where this comes from. He is basing it on several things, including Pastor Andy Woods research. Woods has done amazing work talking about the rapture in a 30+ episode teaching series, and he covers that in depth there. It might be worth watching those videos first, at least to see where this view comes from. It’s actually pretty convincing.
A year or so ago I watched the “Alien Intrusion” movie, and they talked about some of this aspect of how the rapture could be explained away as an alien abduction. The movie really did a good job of showing how aliens are demonic, and shared real-life experiences from people who were having “alien” experiences which they stopped when they called out Jesus’ name. There is a book, too, but if you prefer to watch a film, I’d highly recommend it. It’s really well done and shows you how unlikely aliens are, and how real people have experienced this phenomenon.
Colossians 2:8
Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.
Warmly Doc
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Interesting perspective, Thank you…
Warmly Doc
ChristBringsASword
December 16
NamDoc:
WOW !!! now that’s a statement…
The bible is the word of God, it is not God the WORD, if every bible was removed from the face of the earth, the Holy Spirit will still bring man to salvation. There were no KJV bibles when God saved Abraham.
Jesus is the Word. The Bible is the Word.
The Bible is made from a dead tree that had to give its life.
The Cross is a dead tree that had to give its life
Jesus had to die to give us life.
The Word of God gives life to the dead tree.
The Word of God is written on the pages which gives the Holy Bible Life.
The Holy Bible is the Tree of Life
Jesus is the Tree Of Life
Don’t tell me my Holy Bible is not the Word of God
Don’t tell me The Word of God is not Jesus
Don’t tell me the Bible saves me when I consume it.
You are not my authority.
You are a false translation of the Word of God
I’m moving on, but before I sincerely pray ; ." That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints" KJV
I mean you know harm brother…Warmly Doc
Stop it.
If your KJV only belief leads to this kind of spat and argument on the forum, the very kind of thing JD has repeatedly said we believers should not to do, then walk away. If you must keep your KJV only belief, feel free to do so, but do it without arguing with other believers.