Dec 6 2020: Bible Prophecy Update


The topic for the 2021 Davos conference, which has been postponed from January to the summer, is "The Great Reset”. In his July 2020 book COVID-19: The Great Reset, co-authored with Thierry Malleret, Schwab regards the virus as a providential pretext to remake the world and unleash a “fourth industrial revolution” that, as we have observed, will eliminate private property, restrict travel and establish a surveillance state in which everyone is chipped and monitored. The authors admit that COVID-19 is not “an existential threat” and that it is “one of the least deadly pandemics the world has experienced in the last 2000 years,” but surreptitiously convert it into a pretext for unprecedented social and economic change. The lockdowns are a way of softening up the population to accept a global techno-fascist revolution presided over by a club of billionaires, their political adjutants and chosen “experts,” and UN mandarins. Schwab’s books make this clear.

The Great Reset will remake the world – in Schwab’s words, “to create a more inclusive, resilient and sustainable world going forward,” all the platitudes neatly packed into one sentence. Private property deforms the natural relations between human beings and must be abolished. Private transportation will not be allowed. “Contrary content” in the printing or production of materials will not be permitted, at the cost of access to social media and Internet domains. Fossil fuels will be replaced wholesale by Green technologies. Home gardens will be outlawed. The Christian faith will be gradually suppressed (as is happening today). Vaccines will become mandatory

Society will become “cashless” and all standard monetary transactions replaced by digital currency and governed by electronic means, which can be cancelled by reigning authority at the slightest provocation. Debts will be forgiven and creditors will face the prospect of bankruptcy. The middle class and small entrepreneurs will be wiped out. Commerce will become progressively “contact-less.”

The United States must be neutralized via social isolation, lockdown-induced poverty, and facemask conformity and passivity. Constant surveillance will be employed to ensure compliance. The human being will be “enhanced” through biosecurity, synthetic biology, implantable microchips, cortical modems, nanobots, genetic editing and designer babies. Everyone will be equal, everyone will be secure from the ravages of competition, risk and chance, and everyone will be happy – as they are today in the political template for the Great Reset, Communist China and its fascist business model!

Schwab is a canny manipulator and knows how to turn a perceived catastrophe to his advantage, in his own words “to break glass in case of an emergency.” He has understood that the most effective enabler of the Great Reset has been the pandemic panic unleashed by COVID-19, which has taken the planet by storm, reduced entire populations to abject terror, led to massive lockdowns and personality disfigurement brought about by mandatory masks, and promoted the reign of political despots, ignorant leaders, hired-gun health officials and left-wing organizations like the W.H.O.

Indeed, COVID is a more powerful persuader even than “climate change,” since virus panic works immediately but climate panic “can only follow with a time lag.” Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, a committed Marxist and an admirer of Schwab, is also on board.

Even the Pope is a passionate believer in the Great Reset, though knowing Francis’s affiliation with Liberation Theology, this comes as no surprise. As the Pope said in a recent interview, “We need change. The pandemic brought our organizational and developmental models into a crisis; it exposed many injustices, the troubling silence and social and health failures, subjecting a great number of our brothers to the processes of social exclusion and degradation.” Typical fare. One recalls the Pope’s 2014 message to Schwab urging “an openness to the transcendent” from which “a new political and business mentality can take shape, one capable of guiding all economic and financial activity within the horizon of an ethical approach which is truly humane… I ask you to ensure that humanity is served by wealth and not ruled by it.”

The World Economic Forum (WEF) has just published (October 2020) a so-called White Paper, entitled “Resetting the Future of Work Agenda – in a Post-Covid World”. The 31-page document reads like a blueprint on how to “execute” – because an execution (or implementation) would be – “Covid-19 – The Great Reset” (July 2020), by Klaus Schwab, founder and CEO (since the foundation of the WEF in 1974) and his associate Thierry Malleret.

They call “Resetting the Future” a White Paper, meaning it’s not quite a final version. It is a draft of sorts, a trial balloon, to measure people’s reactions. It reads indeed like an executioner’s tale. Many people may not read it – have no awareness of its existence! It promises a horrifying future to some 80%-plus of the (surviving) population. George Orwell’s “1984” reads like a benign fantasy, as compared to what the WEF has in mind for humanity.This is the what is being put forth, namely the concrete process of implementing The Great Reset!

The Great Reset also foresees, a credit scheme, whereby all personal debt would be “forgiven” – against handing over all personal assets to an administrative body or agency – could possibly be the IMF.

Bill Gates, the Rockefellers, Kissinger et al, have never made a secret out of their strong opinion that the world is over-populated and that the number of people has to be literally reduced. We are dealing with eugenicists.

A perfect method for reducing the world population, are Bill Gates initiated, and WHO-supported vaccination programs. Scandals of such disastrous vaccine programs resulting in children’s death were recorded in India (in the 1990s), Kenya (2014 and thereafter) and other parts of the world.

See also a very revealing TedTalk by Bill Gates of February 2010, “Innovating to Zero”, just about at the time when the “2010 Rockefeller Report” was issued – the very report that has given us so far, the “Lock Step Scenario” – and we are living it now. Hardly protesting it – the entire world – 193 UN member countries – has been coopted or coerced into following this abject human rights abuse on a global scale.

Chinese Communist President Xi Jinping wants travelers to adopt a global QR code system to help determine their health status and travel “permissions” in a post-coronavirus pandemic travel reset. China been building its own mass surveillance network for the past decade, which boasts hundreds of millions of street cameras.The surveillance network has been billed as the world’s most powerful facial-recognition system and aims to identify any of its 1.4 billion citizens within three seconds.

:open_book:Revelation 13:16-18
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

These innovations are creating the environment that the Antichrist and False Prophet will need to wire this world together for their evil purposes. With the Tribulation casting its shadow right here right now , we know that the Rapture of the Church happens before the time of Jacobs trouble!!

From a faux-impeachment to an orchestrated pandemic or should i say plannedemic; from Murder Hornets to massive wildfires; from a sudden increase in UFO sightings to the road being paved for the ‘Great Reset’; from numerous hurricanes to anarchy and riots; from historic Mid-East peace initiatives through the Abrahamic Accords to one of the craziest election heists ever seen in American history, the year 2020 will definitely go down as the most bizarre, topsy-turvy years on record! Most people (believers and non-believers alike) have been scratching their collective heads trying to make sense of all this. All I can say is that this has been 100 years in the making, and promises to lead to one inescapable conclusion – the Rapture of the Church and the world’s coming appointment with divine judgment!

The Rapture of all who belong to Christ will be the greatest “Reset”!

As this dispensation of the church age (The Age Of Grace) draws to an end, it’s time for us to take our stand as Children of the Light(1 Thessalonians) and tell a lost and dying world that it’s time to repent, believe the Gospel, and be converted to a new life in Jesus Christ today! Explain to them with simplicity (Not Religion) the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Romans 10:9-10)!

My pdf on the TOP 20 END TIME SIGNS speaks on the 2 words CONVERGENCE and AGENDA that define the very final moments that we are living in! Please use it to wake people up in these very final moments!:

That trumpet is going to sound any day now!

God bless
Watchman in the wilderness🙏
Mywebsite :


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Just a clarification on this point. The word used in this parable (Matt. 25:1,3,4,7,8) for “lamp” (a small vessel containing oil with a wick) would be better translated as “torch” (a large stick the head of which is wrapped with a rag). It is quite distinct from the word used to indicate an actual lamp in the NT. In v3 those with “no oil” only have the torch (stick with the rag). Similarly the word “trimmed” (v7) would be better translated as “prepared” or “put in order” as we are not talking about a wick here. The act of preparing this type of lighting involves unwinding the rag, soaking it in oil, rewinding it, and lighting it. Thus there are the group with torches and oil and the group with only torches.

I think this parable is a deceptively difficult one, perhaps intentionally so by Christ. There is certainly much dissent over it. I take it to mean the division between those raptured (according to faith) vs those left behind (without faith). It is interesting to note the further difference in the summary by Christ as “I know you not” (v12) vs that given to the Pharisees as “I never knew you” (Matt. 7:23). Perhaps this is a further hint that the virgins without oil, despite missing the rapture, still have an opportunity to know Christ by becoming a tribulation saint? Clearly a virgin with no oil is preferred over a Pharisee.
Anyway, I thought this may be of interest to the thread. God bless.

Good point. Guess the feeble mind took the easy route. Ok went and fixed it to make better sense. Thanx for catching my goof.

Hi, P. Faraq is absolutely correct with his view on Last Days. In Daniel prophetic explanation to Nebuchadnezzar of his nightmare dream Daniel said that the final kingdom before God’s Kingdom was made off by iron and clay, which is the current kingdom of computer age. For computer is made of iron and silicon chip which is the main substance of clay. (Daniel 2: 41-43). Daniel said that during those days of kings of that last kingdom of feet from iron and clay there will be attempts to combine the iron and clay ( read computer technology) with “seed of men” (read with human DNA) but it will fail and God will destroy all of their efforts and kingdom (Daniel 2:43-45). That is the mark of time when God establishes His Kingdom and we are now in that period of time.

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Thanks Owen. You do some very good research. I don’t actually find the rapture at all in Matthew. The 10 virgins is an analogy comparing what the kingdom is like. Just before this, we see: Matt 24:45+. Definitely a warning to the Jews, I would see. These analogies can, to me, all seem to be dealing with the point of Christ’s physical return upon the earth. I do see Luke 21:34 as a potential rapture allusion. Jesus did know at the beginning of Matt 24 that the Jewish temple will be destroyed. This would likely mean the Father permitted the Son to know their ultimate rejection. In light of that, Christ would know that the ten virgins would be referring to His return at a time the Jews would be the focus (Jacobs Trouble). If true, and it would appear so to be, the virgins without oil would be an analogy of Israel not remaining with God for so long…but also that even with all the major goings on during the tribulation, some Jews will not be expecting Messiah. Kind of hard to conceive. But that will be the epitome of deceptive times.

On top of that, I learnt parables are meant to convey one message. Instead we attach so many meanings like who are the virgins, oil, lamp in finer details etc causing confusion. Meaning we allegorize every aspect of the parable details.

I even heard some Christians used some parables of Jesus to support loss of salvation!

The foolish virgins are beliving and unbelieving Jews. Both are all asleep when Jesus comes back to earth. Those believing ones make the lamps ready with oil. The believing remmant in the Tribulation group welcomed Jesus Christ.


2 things:

  1. If Christians go through the tribulation, it’s not “the 7 year tribulation” which is a misnomer. Not all of Daniel’s 70th week are tribulations, what Jesus defines as the tribulations are only after the abomination of desolation at the halfway point, and those are cut short, not even the full remaining 3.5 years, by the coming of Jesus in the clouds after the 6th seal/after the mark of the beast but before the trumpets and vials. The tribulations are not God’s wrath, the 5th seal has martyred saints, which why would the seals be the wrath of God on the saints? In fact the saints under the altar cry out for God to deliver His wrath on the earth, because it hasn’t happened yet. The wrath of God doesn’t begin until after the 6th seal in Revelation 6 (first vision), and after Jesus appears in the clouds in Revelation 14 (second vision). The tribulations are persecution by the world, not judgement from God. You absolutely need to separate the tribulations from God’s wrath. To declare the whole 70th week as “the tribulations” and equate them to God’s wrath is a serious injustice to God, to declare that God is who got the “tribulation saints” murdered as part of His judgments. It’s simply not true! Christians will go through persecution, but they will NOT go through the wrath of God that starts after the 6th seal. THAT is a promise. We are not promised however, that we won’t suffer persecution/tribulation. We’re promised that on this world we will have tribulation.
  2. The purpose of Christians going through the tribulation is NOT purification, it is TESTIMONY. Christians maintaining their faith even in the face of death will SAVE many people. More than any amount of preaching and any soulwinning. It might be that more people will be saved because of the tribulations than at any other time in the world, and a lot of it will be because of the moral conviction and inspiration stemming from the treatment of Christians during the tribulations. People will understand that it is WRONG that these people are treated this way just because of their beliefs, and see the courage that Christians have in suffering and dying refusing to renounce their faith, and those people, won’t take the mark, those people may get saved. Just like the martyrs in the early Church, seeing people maintain their faith unto death got people saved “the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church”.
    Revelation 12:11
    THAT is why Christians may go through the tribulations. To overcome the beast by the blood of the lamb and by their testimony and not loving their lives unto death.

Thank you! Very helpful.

Hi Jay. Thanks for your post. We differ a bit, however, I do go to a KJV only / pre-wrath rapture church currently that believes as you have shared. I am pretrib and not KJVO, but I know they love the Lord and preach His word. That is always a good place to be. My church has a book on why they believe pre-wrath rapture…but my goodness…the language is very different than I have been taught. I have seen 12 hours + of rapture timing debates that are very good and solid…but I have not really seen what could challenge pretrib…at least as I am understanding it. So I am working through learning a new language to properly be talking about the same things. I was wondering your take on a few things if you might.

  1. Is Matt 24:29 talking about the 6th seal…or something else?

I see a difference in language that seems subtle but in Joel it appears there are connections made.

Moon Blood Red / Moon Darkened
Joel has 2 different accounts “blood moon” and “moon darkened.” All references to blood moon seem to be the 6th seal. All references to “after the tribulation” = moon darkened. All moon darkened imply Armageddon in Joel’s context.

Joel 2:31 / Joel 3:15-17

Reference to 6th seal is: “before the great and terrible day of the Lord…”
NOT “after the tribulation of those days.”

Joel 3:12-14 ties Matt 24:29 with exact language to winepress Armageddon event, which biblically links this language in Matthew with Joel “as Armageddon.” Also with Rev Chapter 14 and the end time sickle judgement casting people into the winepress/supper of God/Armageddon (all same end of all tribulation great and not the great) timeframe…all at same timeframe.

JOEL 3:12-15
Let the nations be awakened
And come up to the Valley of [g]Jehoshaphat,
For there I will sit to judge
All the surrounding nations.
13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe.
Come, tread the grapes, for the wine press is full;
The vats overflow, for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of [h]decision!
For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of [i]decision.
15 The sun and moon have become dark,
And the stars have lost their brightness.

What is different in the 6ht seal is that the stars Fall “to the earth” like unripe figs (perhaps implying that ripe figs still in the tree?) / Verses: Stars Fall from the sky (only). In Matthew and Joel 3, the stars don’t fall to earth. They fall from heaven…or dim out.

In any case, this Joel 3 language is definitely Armageddon (Jehoshaphat, wine press, sickle, vats overflow–this is all Rev 14/16 stuff, no?).

The two witnesses have their ministry 3.5 years prior to the 7th Trumpet. If the beast from the abyss kills them (v.7), likely from the 5th Trumpet (Rev 9:1-11) then it would appear that the antichrist can only demand worship during the abomination of desolation after the abyss is open. Rev 13:7-8 appears to link up and match 11:7 timing in notion of waring with saints = to the time he demands worship…which would be the the middle of the week, no? Leaving 42 months left to rule? Or, how is it that the abomination of desolation is in at the midpoint when the power to demand worship would come after the 5th Trumpet? Would that not make the 6th seal much sooner than the midpoint?

I hope it makes sense what I am asking. God bless :slight_smile:

Amen, well said Laura. I went to a church for a very long time that taught seminary level like from the pulpit. Later in life, I have come to discover that many of their “theological theories” have some major problems…proven by the mere simplicity of scripture and context itself. Plus, I think Elon Musk wants us to fear AI so we all get his nueralink Approach - Neuralink. Sometimes dumbing down is the wisest thing we can do. I know of a YT channel that believes the 1st seal is the “2 Thes 2 Strong Delusion.” And that it is a delusion of the apocalypse. So the 1st seal is the fake apoloclhypse? lol. Sometimes, more is less.

Teren, thank you for your kind words. I am more than happy to concede this point about the parable possibly being in relation to the Second Coming, rather than the rapture. As you point out it is actually about the kingdom of heaven, which these parables in Matthew indicate to be a difficult subject to say the least. My point about the rapture aspect may have sounded more dogmatic than I was intending it to. I merely had the discussion on the rapture up thread foremost in my mind and got sidetracked by this.

From my own studies I find all Christ’s parables on the kingdom of heaven to be challenging and I likely did not emphasise this enough. This one on the ten virgins I find especially strange. I have read commentaries on it pointing out all sorts of unusual aspects. I did not want to go into them in my response as it would have been lengthy and ultimately somewhat inconclusive anyway, whereas the lamp vs torch aspect is more clear.

The point @dlcv makes about it being directed at the Jews I find worth considering in a qualified manner. I feel the gospels in their entirety are generally applicable to humanity as a whole. They represent differing viewpoints of the same general message and I think we can sometimes get distracted by the intended audience argument. There are intended audiences, however it can still be revealing for us (gentile) to read the message as it was directed to others (Jew) and I am certain Christ knew this would be the case, especially in relation to parables of the kingdom of heaven.

Ultimately this parable is about one group that has and another that has not. The group that has is granted entry/audience/participation and the group that has not is refused.

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What you need to understand and seem to get part of, but not fully, is that Revelation is not in chronological order, you’re correct that the testimony of the 2 witnesses happens earlier than the trumpets. I’m not sure when exactly the 2 witnesses come in we just know their testimony is for 1260 days, they die, and after 3 days, they raise up (my speculation is also that they die after the abomination of desolation and they are raptured up with the rest of the saints).
Anyway. The main thing to see and understand in Revelation is that you do NOT have a sequence of seals, then trumpets, then the reign of the beast for 42 months, then vials, then armageddon and the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom.
Revelation 10:7 clues us that after the 7th trumpet is the end of that narrative. Which makes sense because in Revelation 11:15 Jesus has taken the world as His kingdom forever and ever. But someone reading Revelation like a chronologically ordered novel would think that Jesus hands over His kingdom to the beast for 42 months right after that! No!
What you have to see and understand, you have to rightly divide the words of truth in this case… is that Revelation 4-11 are one sequence of events
and Revelation 12-20 are a second sequence of events
In Revelation 6:1-11 you have Tribulations
In Revelation 6:12-17 you have the beginning of the Day of the Lord, it’s Jesus appearing in the clouds (Revelation 6:16 confirms they see Him sitting on the throne, in the clouds, every eye sees Him), it’s the rapture as described in Matthew 24:29-31, it’s the day of the lord as described in Joel 2.
In Revelation 7:1-8 you have the 144000 sealed, and the wrath of God doesn’t truly start until they are sealed.
In Revelation 7:9-17 you have the results of the rapture, showing that the rapture had just taken place prior when the sun and moon darkened, the saints are in heaven praising God, having overcome the Great Tribulations.
Revelation 8-11 are the wrath of God, finishing in a great earthquake.
Revelation 11 also shows the establishment of Jesus’ kingdom on earth, and finishes with the final judgement of the dead.
So it’s a story of tribulations, rapture, wrath of God, kingdom, final judgement.

Revelation 12 does not CONTINUE this, it starts over at the birth of Christ.
Revelation 13 you have tribulations (PARALLEL to 6:1-11)
Revelation 14:1-5 you have the 144000 sealed, again the wrath does not start until they are sealed
Revelation 14:14-20 you have the beginning of the Day of the Lord, Jesus in the clouds, the rapture (first harvest, note it is done by Jesus and they are not put through the wrath of God), then the second harvest is done by an angel, not Jesus, and this harvest is put through the wrath of God (Parallel to Revelation 6:12-17)
Revelation 15 shows the results of the rapture that just took place, again, showing a timing of after tribulation but before wrath, again, saints in heaven praising God (Parallel to Revelation 7:9-17)
Revelation 16 is the wrath of God, again in the final parts having a great earthquake.
Revelation 19-20 is Jesus establishing His earthly kingdom, followed by final judgement of the dead.
So again, a narrative of tribulations, rapture, wrath of God, kingdom, and final judgement.

If you do not split it into 2 narratives and read it in Chronological order, you have 2 beginnings of the day of the Lord, you have 2 sets of 144,000, you have Jesus ruling then handing over control to the Antichrist, and you have 2 great earthquakes destroying Jerusalem after the 7th judgement of their kind, and 2 final judgements of the dead.

Another thing to see and understand is that “the Day of the Lord” is not literally 1 24 hour period. Isaiah 34 and Isaiah 63 are about the wrath of God, and in Isaiah 34:8 and Isaiah 63:4, Jesus interchangeably uses a day and a year interchangeably, meaning that the actual chronological length of time is not specific. It’s just the time that God is pouring out His wrath. The 5th trumpet of the wrath of God is 5 months long, and the 6th trumpet might be 1 year, 1 month, 1 day, and 1 hour long (or at least it’s prepared for that long). I expect the great tribulations themselves to last no more than 2 years after the abomination of desolation before being cut short. Probably shorter, cause I think God’s wrath lasts at least a year and a half if not longer.

But good catch on me being KJV, I suppose that’s a common thing with pre wrath is that we tend to be KJV?

correct, I wasn’t meaning that it was our own courage it’s that we’re given courage by the spirit. It’s Jesus that is our source of courage even if we’re facing martyrdom. People will see that very physically weak people who have no hope of standing up on their own, standing up for Jesus, and it will finally click for some people, “I want that source of strength too”. If it was our own courage, that wouldn’t inspire or save anyone. God gets all the glory.
I agree with you also with Luke 12. Some Christians will be arrested, and tried, and in that hour of need, the Holy Spirit will give them their testimony, and it’s going to save people’s souls.

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anyway, for me, only way I could see a pre trib rapture is if there are 2 raptures, because I so strongly see the pre wrath one.
Otherwise what’s the point of Jesus appearing in the clouds in Revelation 6:12-17 and Revelation 14:14-20, and why are there saints in Heaven praising God after having overcome tribulation in Revelation 7:9-17 and Revelation 15:2-4? The fact that a pre wrath rapture does take place is so strong that to have a pre trib would require an event on top of that and make both pre trib and pre wrath both true at the same time just for different people. Which I don’t completely rule out, but the simpler explanation for me is just pre wrath.

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Yes, everything you said did happen and probably a lot more we may never know about. The point is the damage to the society that it does is as evil as you get. Even the most loving people can be brought to the breaking point dealing with such a situation. In other words this is what the US is looking at and not all that far into the future. It will also pave the way for the A/C because he will have some magic plan to set things straight and that promise will gain him undying support. He will likely have a solution to COVID as well along with other solutions to various problems people are facing around the world such as his peace deals. What we are seeing is the what I no longer call birth pains, instead full on labor, just waiting for the birth to happen.

@K7 Hi Keegan…thanks for your article…I have sent to some friends. I’m glad Barry made an appearance 're the appearance of the monoliths…odd…everything getting weirder and weider…And that the general population actually believe all thus! There has been MASS brainwashing occurring what with TV shows movies, education etc. …we keep praying!

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Hi Jay. Thanks for getting back to me. Appreciate your feed back. I must admit that I have, for most of my Christian life, stayed away from Revelation…it just never seemed to make sense…nor would it likely be anything I’d see in my lifetime. But in 2017, everything changed. I have read it through many times. Its getting clearer.

:slight_smile: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: C H R O N O LO G Y :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag::slight_smile:

I would differ about Chronology. Here is why. Each 7th judgement seals & of trumpets, is the next set of judgements. For example, THE 7TH SEAL: are the 7 trumpets.

8:1 When the Lamb broke the SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.

Then at the end of the 7 trumpets, the 7th trumpet says this:

11:19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the THE ARC OF HIS COVENANT. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.

And we pick this back up in chapter 15…

v5 After this I looked, and I saw in heaven the temple—that is, the TABERNACLE OF THE COVENANT LAW—and it was opened. 6 Out of the temple came THE SEVEN ANGELS WITH THE SEVEN PLAGUES. They were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes around their chests.

Also we see in 15:1, the Seven Bowls are noted as the last plagues.

Seven Bowls
15I:1 saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed.

When we get to your verse, and thanks for sharing it with me, do we seen the completion of the judgements, or what do we see?

10:7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then THE MYSTERY of God is finished, as He announced to His servants the prophets.

“The mystery of God,” not the judgement. Compared to 15:1, 15:1 is more specific about the judgment. I would go what that one. I understand chapter 10 = the 144k reinstituted witnesses as national Israel officially is back on the scene as God promised they would be. The mystery, is the fulfillment of the covenant promise to keep Israel as a notion only partially hardened (Romans 11:25), likely. So I would take “then the mystery of God is finished” to, yes, be included within the scope of the seventh angel trumpet = the entire set of bowls…for they appear to come out of the 7th trumpet.
And in all likelihood, are the 7th trumpet.

I do not see seals, trumpets, the reign of the beast for 42 months, then vials.

What i see is seals, trumpets (during the beginning reign of antichrist), then vials. Trumpets are concurrent with antichrist kingdom setup, from what i can tell.

:slight_smile: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: A N T I C H R I S T :butterfly:E N E R G I Z E D :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag::slight_smile:

As for the two witnesses, it is true we are not told when they start. But they finish just before the 7th trumpet. And they are attacked by the beast power which comes out of the 5th trumpet. My point though in this was that the antichrist does not gain power over every nation (demanding worship timeframe) until the empowerment from the beast power out of the pit in trumpet 5.

13:7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

If we compare that language with 11:7 “Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.”

…we see that Revelation is connecting “the beast that came out of the pit” with antichrist ability to have authority over the world where he a) kills the saints and, b) demands worship from the world. These could be unrelated timeframes…but it does link them tightly by inference, and in 13:7 it directly correlates the the war against the saints language with the timeframe of demanding worship…they are in the very same verse together.

:slight_smile: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: O U T L I N E :butterfly: & :butterfly:M O D U L A R :butterfly: N A R A T I V E :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag::slight_smile:

I have studied literature style extensively. I could always learn more, and admittedly, I did not go to seminary. But I did spend quite a bit of time at a church that taught seminary level from the pulpit–on a weekly bases. Seminary can be wrong. Way wrong. But I strive to understand prayerfully.

In one of my literary courses, we studied a form I had never known called modular narrative. This is a literary style that is only as old as the 19th century, but is now most commonly used in screenplay. However, there are literary styles written in this format. I believe that such a book as Revelation (and in some ways too Daniel…and maybe others) could be written in a literary genre that of the time it is for. Since modular narrative is rather a recent literary genre, it would make sense, at least in part, for Revelation to be at least partly written and organized in this genre.

I don’t see Revelation as completely chronological. But rather chronologically driven. Meaning that it has flash forward and flash back but does move generally in a linear fashion. I would outline the book of Revelation as follows:

1-3 churches.
4-5 Lamb worthy to open the scroll.
6 seal judgments.
7 144k with flashback (end of ch 6 = saints died in trib so far) and flash forward (end of Ch 7 = saints evangelized by 144k in the great tribulation).
8-9 Trumpets judgments.
10 Little book (possibly Daniel Unveiled–but more likely 144K National Israel Inauguration).
11 FROM BEGINNING Two Witnesses (I see then at beginning of trib because of their death ending after 3.5 years and the one out of the pit got supernatural power to kill them 5th seal area of time).
13 From Dragon Landing to number of the beast.
14 FROM THE MIDDLE Interlude focus on144k INNAGURATION after being sealed and protected during trumpets.
ALSO – 3 warnings to come & peek preview (flashforward) of reapers during the battle of Armageddon (which happens in ch 19). So this chapter looks like it does both flashback and flashforward.
15 Prelude to the bowl judgments.
16 The bowl judgments.
17-18 Babylon the great destroyed.
19 Armageddon.
20 Millennial Kingdom.
21-22 Eternal State.

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The way I would understand modular narrative to work in that passage, Revelation 11:15, (I am not sure if you know what I am about to say–even if you disagree, you will see my consistency in it) works like this: This is at the point of the 7th Trumpet (which is also the same as the 7 vials). It is in that stream of judgement conquer as the 7th Trumpet begins that AT THE END OF THE VIALS this will be the final rule of Christ. Modular narrative has a poetic style to it in that I don’t see this as flash forward, but rather a certainty–having already accomplished 2 other judgement sets, and realizing a final phase to destroy this kingdom of antichrist for good–in anticipation…having already the glory so far…this is the attitude and confirmation of the 7 vials). It is kind of a poetic device…but seemingly more so a device of emotional certainty and praise. God knows He will win. They are in the final stretch now…kind of thing.

:slight_smile: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: T H E :butterfly: 6 T H :butterfly:S E A L :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag: :checkered_flag::slight_smile:

The 6th Seal – It does not say Jesus appears in the clouds. You are borrowing this from Matt 24:29 and superimposing it onto the 6th seal. We can disagree about it. We can have difference on what…

6:16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

…means. But Rev 6 does not say anything about Jesus being in the clouds. What it does say about the sky is that the sun is dark, the moon is blood, and stars fall to the earth, and the skies rollup. But no clouds.

In Revelation 14, the imagery there may likely be the sign of The Son of Man. But as you notice, I place chapter 14 as flash forward to Armageddon. The reason being is that chapter 14 is the intro to 15 and 16 and 19 (all about the grand finale, which has its grand finale as Armegeddon). Not to mention–14:18:

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

Remember the language from Joel chapter 3? Sounds very similar does it not? This is the blood bath of Armageddon. Please see 19:15. “He treads the [f]wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.”

Remember this parable: Matthew 13:24-29. He gathers the tares first, then the wheat. When you look at Rev 14, you see two reapings. The second one is obviously not good. So what is the first? Is it the rapture? The wheat? But they are not first. To me, this appears to be those who end up before him in the separation of the sheep and goat, Matt 25. Whatever they are, they are not likely wheat, at least according to Matt 13. The wheat, I would understand are: Matt 24:31. These, to me, are the Jews gathered from around the world, those who ran from antichrist. They are not resurrected. They go directly into the millennial kingdom. The four winds language is common in scripture and refers to “on earth.” Please see:

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As I look over your post, I may not be answering all specifics, but in my outline and other answers, I do address them. The one thing I could mention here is Rev 12. Ok, so let me ask, what is the sign for? The sign is something we see in the future. And it points to something in the future even to the sign. A sign is not for something in the past. I believe this is from the beginning of tribulation (or the 70th week) because the story of woman and child i see as the sign for “seals.” The woman is Israel, and the child is both Christ and His body (Rev 2:27 being the body…the rapture). Now, I must admit here, if a rapture is a part of the seal signs…it could agree with you or me in the way I am seeing it. It could be pretrib rapture…or it could be 6th seal rapture…because the baby goes up and the woman flees. In that I would say you and i might overlap.

The reason I see that as seal sign is because in Rev 15:1 we see A DEFINATE vial sign in the celestial. Then there are two others…just like there are two other judgement sets. The red dragon is likely the celestial sign for Trumpets. Notice 1/3 as a signature sign of the red dragon story assigned to the face plate sign. And then see how often 1/3 is mentioned in Trumpet judgements. And notice why the only one time its not. That leaves one last celestial sign (out of the whole book of Revelation…imaginative with crazy colorful imagery…and yet…aside from the sign of the Son of Man…there are only 3 signs in the whole book…interesting, no? And they are all…celestial).

Blessings dear brother. Hope this makes sense. We are speaking different languages. Same situation with my church. I need to take quite a while, as you see, so that we can start talking about the same thing. In this though, I have done my best to show you my language. You have laid out yours. Now we know the differences. Prayerfully, maybe from here…as the Lord wills…perhaps we might further sharpen each others iron. Blessings.

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Well, okay, so, I wasn’t trying to say that the trumpets and vials were the same thing. They are different things happening within the wrath of God.
The main thrust is that the tribulations are over before the first trumpet judgement is blown. The saints are gone by that time, they’ve been raptured. What’s left is an unrepenting world, plus they have more pressing things than persecuting Christians at that time. It’s no longer like the days of Noah or Lot for them. Once you have the trumpets start, it’s not the tribulations but the wrath of God. You’re right that the trumpets precede the vials.
I’m just saying that the rapture takes place before both of them, but after the tribulations of those days.
I see 2 chronological sets of events, not 1 chronological set of events with a bunch of flash forwards because then you have duplicated events if you see them as happening in order and you also have Jesus delivering the world to Antichrist which is not going to happen. It’s modular in that the 2 narratives give different details, and all are important… but when the details match each other it is also important because it shows events happening in parallel rather than chronologically.

as far as the 6th seal. The people asking for the rocks to hide them are hiding from Him who sits on the throne. How would they know it’s Jesus if they don’t see Him?

Also, the seals aren’t judgements. They’re things that God allows to happen, but it’s all the workings of Satan and his Antichrist. God doesn’t pass a judgement on His own people to have them murdered. But God does allow His people to be persecuted, and will avenge them. It might seem like semantics, but it’s important. We’re promised to be spared the wrath of God. Calling the seals the wrath of God doesn’t fit.

Irregardless of what is happening in this world, let Jesus Christ be our Vision!