February 12, 2023: 2 Peter 2:17-22 – Why Some Christians are so Naïve

:bible2:2 Peter 2:17-22 – Why Some Christians are so Naïve

Pastor JD :hawaiianshirt_1: talks about why Christians seem so gullible when it comes to false teachers, and false believers, then provides a template so as to not be duped.

Watch on JDFarag.org

Or watch here on youtube

:mag_right: More 2 Peter Study Videos


Maaan if this one didn’t SCREAM “Listen up!”


Another great sermon in 2 Peter by Pastor JD!
So the prophesy update in the first service got Pastor JD all warmed up for this one, and both were eloquent.
I really appreciated the detail that he went into in explaining “Judging others.” I have seen so many Christians struggle in this area to the point that they become very venerable to wolves.
I pray that this sermon opens some eyes up.


Amen. Thats one thing that has bothered me for years, someone who is obviously a parasite /con artist comes in…and gullible Christains throw time money and adulation at them. (There are genuinely needy hurting people who need help and these crooks ate stealing from them)
And yet maybe because i am a sinner myself i can often see through this person so clearly. One time a friend took me to hear a “great man of God” seriously i felt ill. My friend was livid with me, i was heartless judgemental etc . I apologised but as at that time i was a relatively young Christian and she was a leader i just refused to go back. Years later stuff came out . Wish everyone on my church cd hear this powerful sermon. Loved the root will show in the fruit


I am having a problem with a part of J.D.'s teaching, and I wonder what others think and maybe they can shed some light for me.

I have copied word for word part of the sermon that I am concerned with and present it here. Minute 55 onwards.

When someone asks the question of How can you make the statement that someone is not a Christian?

The answer to that question is visa ve another question. How can someone make the statement that someone IS a Christian?

The answer to the latter question is the answer to the original question. Moreover, by virtue of the fact that the original question is even asked, is an answer unto itself, as there should be no question about whether or not someone is a Christian.

When someone is born, there is no question that they have been born. So to, is this true, if someone is born again. There is no question that they’ve been born again. If there is any question about whether or not someone is born again, then the answer to that question is they are not born again. This because, if they were born again, there would be no question. (Song: If you are saved and you know it then your life will surely show it.) Listen, you are going to know. And if there is a question mark, pretty good chance they are not.

Maybe I didn’t fully understand what J.D. was trying to get across. I think his answer is painted with a broad brush that does not really cover things completely.

What about Carnal Christians? Are they NOT Christians?
Maybe they just never got any proper teaching. (That would be making excuses for them like J.D. says.)

The Corinthian church was a very carnal church and yet Paul called them Brethren. Would Paul call Non Born again people his Brethren?

They were doing some pretty horrendous things in the church which Paul was rebuking them for.
Things like getting drunk at the Lord’s table, tolerating and excusing sexual immorality, dividing the body over teachers, abusing spiritual gifts, denying the bodily resurrection, etc.

If we see some people doing those types of things, we might be asking: “How can we KNOW if they are really Christians?”

And what about those that are in a backslidden state? Have they lost their salvation?

And how does this all fit in with the ABC plan of salvation.
How can we truly know someone’s heart and if they are truly believing or not?

Anyway, these were some of my thoughts when I heard what he had to say, and I wondered if I am not understanding him correctly.

I am not trying to start an argument or even any discussions. Just wondering what everyone else might think.


Minute 55 onwards…

This is my take:

The whole context of 2 Peter Chapter 2 is false teachers and prophets…not false believers

(v1) But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you,

Then he uses the words “they” and “them” specifically.

At the end he cited Proverbs 26:11,

But the word of the true proverb has happened to them: The dog turning to his own vomit; and, The washed sow to wallowing in the mire.

Dog and pig are unclean animals according to Mosaic Law.

Born again Christians are called as a sheep, as Jesus said I am the Good Shepherd.

By referring these fellas as dogs and pigs, which means they were not saved at all in the beginning.

As for this verse:

2Pe 2:20 For if they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the full knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and are again entangled, they have been overcome by these, their last things are worse than the first.

It is possible for unsaved to have bible knowledge, even having “cemetaries” colleges and universities certs, act and speak like a Christian. They are “professing” Christians NOT “possessing” Christians ( having Holy Spirit inside ).

This morning in my drive back home, a question popped up:

Are we authorized to question a person’s salvation or not?

Pastor JD seems to imply yes…in this sermon.


Thank you. I will edit my post and put that in there as well.
O.K. I understand it taken in context like that. But the way he came out with it, it’s like people ask him this and not always are they referring to false prophets.

It is just something that bothered me because I just recently had a discussion with a friend, and we were talking about that very thing. We were wondering if some of our relatives were truly born again or not because they seemed to have backslidden or are very carnal.

Thanks for your input.


I am putting this supplementary material by Pastor Andy Woods on 2 Peter 2


Dallas if I understand Pastor, that is more directed at other leaders in the church. You and I as lay people have different responsibilities to each other but the leaders of the church are responsible for all and have to hold a higher standard through which they look to see of a person is backslidden, a false Christian, or just a con artist. He went to great lengths to point out that if the leaders do not protect the sheep their blood is on the hands of those leaders.

Let try to put it in terms you can better understand. When I first enlisted I was not repsonsible for anyone but myself. As I got promoted I was then assigned people to work under me. I had resonsibility for their works. So I unlike when I was low man on the totem pole and did not care what others did as it did not fall on me to make sure they did their job, what they did was never my concern. But as I move up in the ranks and finally to NCO then I might have 15 to 20 or more people placed under me to achieve some job objective. If any of them had bad habits of bailing out or hiding and the job did not get done then I was the one held accountable. So obviously I was much more alert and watchful to their behaviors. This would clue me into if they would need more strict supervision or not. So it is the same for pastors but on a different scale. Their job is to feed and tend to the sheep. If a wolf shows up wearing a sheep skin there will still be tell tale signs they are nothing more than a wolf and need to be chased out of the flock. If they are just a wandering sheep that also needs to be known so they can be guided back to the flock and the safety that comes with numbers.

So it would appear that while the words may be difficult to understand at first a little further investigation by way of comparison with other organizations say a business and how they often work helps to see that part was addressed to leaders in churches at the various levels not the general congregation. As a leader in a church say a music leader or youth pastor, those positions come with a responsibility much greater than the regular members. In a business you have the office workers but they are under an office manager. The office manager answers to the section manager who answers to the division manager who answers to the board or the owner. Each level has a higher level of responsibilities but relies on the managers below them to carry out their assigned task and keep the peace or the whole company collapses.

On the other and we are actually our brother’s keeper. We get our best example of that in the Good Samaritan story. The Samaritan was not a Hebrew and not subject to Hebrew laws and was in fact looked down on by Hebrews but when push came to shove and a Hebrew as attacked and robbed who helped him. It was not the priest or other Hebrews. Nope it was the Samaritan who went above and beyond. Was he saved. Well not at that time as Jesus had not yet paid the price for sin. Was he considered saved after Jesus was crucified we don’t know but it would not be a surprise if it was accounted to righteousness for him as God knew his heart had love for his fellow man regardless of who that person was. We can alway speculate on the salvation of another but only God knows that for sure. Even so we can also see when someone iis up to no good with false doctrines and working to lead others astray. If we do nothing then are we living up to God’s standard? Not really. Just as Pastor explained LOVE as sometimes appearing to be harsh in the short term, in Biblical terms true love for one another is to guide them to the Truth and away from harming others. If they repent as Pastor showed Paul seeing some do then they we stand up for them until they are dead and gone or until they fall away again and then we show harsh love yet again, over and over as many times as it takes up to and well past 7 times 70.

I hope this helps you understand your quandry a little better. It all comes down to love. We love our children but we still discipline them. Why? The answer is simple so they can function as adults long after we are gone and be safe through out their lives. Out of the abundance of love sometimes we have to be hard on another. We may not like the short term hurt it causes them but that is still better than the eternal hurt they will deal with if we don’t help them.


I captured this slide:



I would also say yes also, we can question it, but we do not pass judgement unto condemnation on them.

We question a persons’ salvation when they constantly produce the fruits of evil as opposed to the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Or they are an obvious false teacher, false prophet, heretic, wolf.

I should have included, that it is them our responsibility to bring our findings to the church leadership so that they can deal with the issue.


Thank you. That explains things quite nicely.

@dlcv Thanks Dennis. I will check those videos later today.


I’m still on the Feb 5th teaching but yes, we must test the spirits. So often we have professing brothers and sisters giving wisdom for example and we need to test the spirits.

I have shared before that I was out with an evangelical team in the day which brought me great joy. But, over time the Holy Spirit grieved me over what they were following. Some of them were following NAR. … It was so hard to put my finger on it. They were on fire Christians.
Well it has really has helped me recently to read berean.org ( I believe it is). They have numerous testimonies from people
Who have come out of that movement. I now am able to articulate about this false teaching
More bc of these testimonies . Wolves in sheep clothing teaching this. All in all Jesus is not enough and they need more … Read about these- it is such an infection of the church. This is the best way to protect us is to see firsthand what people have said and low
And behold all these people that come out come to know Gods truths.

So to me whether this update is about being aware of false teachers or people following false teachings (and possibly with salvation at risk) it doesn’t matter. If you could see how often people get sucked into it from another “believer”. Yep, we need to
Be aware of their fruit and what they follow.

I know this is different than what you wrote Dallas. But I do think we need to be leery of other professing Christians until we really know what they are about.


We should question one another when it appears we are falling into sin etc.

It’s called upholding the brethren.

Tons of scripture on this.

If they don’t receive correction and repent, we treat them as tax collector.

Which means basically we ex communicate. This term would have been well understood by the audience of the time.

People who sin openly and without repentance bring “the way” into bad repute and harm other believers.

This punishment is for their benefit also.

If they learn they may return.

It will be obvious. Like JD says. There will be no question on these people.

If you are in the Word of God, you will recognize, and you will know.


Prayers for all. :pray::heart:


Heaven In Your Eyes…

Sometimes I sit and wonder about the patience and lovingkindness of God… It seems like no matter how much I try to live for Him, I fail so many times and I beat myself up because I’ve missed the mark… While it may be human nature to fail as long as we are in this fallen frame, my heart breaks because I think about the One whose love is perfect in every way…

An immeasurable love that far exceeds my earthly thoughts and endured so much to reconcile to Himself someone so lost… And not only the gift of reconciliation but to see a lost soul forgiven, clothed from above with garments of faith and seen as redeemed through the eyes that holds every grain of sand on the shore and in the sea numbered…

And like the sand, so are our sins washed away with the Living Water whose depths of grace are unfathomable and unattainable through human effort… It was His perfect love alone, His eyes which saw His beloved seated in Heavenly places, in the eternal, saved from the former things, the doubts and fears which warred against a soul created for Himself…

A war that will one day come to an end as we see our Redeemer in a twinkling descending from Heaven in victory… We will see Heaven Himself, not just the beautiful place but the beautiful One whose glory makes Heaven just a reflection of His majesty…

We see Him, face to face and see Heaven in His eyes…

Don’t give up, stay encouraged and keep looking up, Jesus is coming soon…

~ Anthony Harpazo Ready Sawyer Jr.


I think this is part of the strategy of the enemy to create a unifying religion. False teachers have made contemplative prayer so mainstream that almost every church in my area prioritizes experiences and signs. The altered state that contemplative prayer induces changes one mind subconciously to accept a universalist worldview. I hope JD talks about this soon.


As I think more about what @Dallas posted above she mentioned that Paul called these brethren. Yes, but just like today, none of us can know who is truly saved or not. He is no doubt speaking to professing Christians (just like all the apostles were in their letters) and exhorting , rebuking, correcting… just like today.
Yes, we can understand more where professing Christians are by their fruit. And we should discern that. And test the spirits. It is our job to also exhort, correct and rebuke . To be on guard for the enemy who presents himself as a wolf in sheeps clothing. Nothing new under the sun; the apostles were just like todays pastors and leaders , not truly knowing who is saved but I’m pretty sure they were discerning and as scripture said they chose men who were filled by the Spirit to do certain jobs. They didn’t go out on mission with just anyone. But when addressing a church of professing Christians they addressed them all the same, as brethren , just as we do today. And just like today, no doubt, not everyone in our churches are brethren .

I may have captured this wrong again- once you write you can’t see the post above at least not on the phone. But it really made me think. And I believe Scrioture has many warnings for those professing but not following the Lord


Insightful and I wanted to add something to the issue of changing of the mind subconsciously.

Billy Crone in his recent Voodoo teachings discusses the use of repetitive drumming, beats , and body movements ( dance type ) that when after being continuous for awhile induce a trans like state of mind that opens it up to demonic forces. Contemplative prayer has the same affect on the mind.

Many churches today are not testing the spirits are practicing the same repetitive mind altering music and various repetitious phrases that produce these kundalini spirit body shakes and mind altering states which Billy discusses all this in this Voodoo series.
You see this going on in many of the NAR churches.

Spencer Smith also covers these things in his Third Adam 3 series.

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Responded to @DallasT point about Paul to the carnal believers at Corinth.

I think these are great points made by Dallas.

I disagree that we can judge another’s salvation by their fruit. We are only told we will know them , false teachers, by their fruits not a professing fellow believer.

Paul was not questioning their salvation of the Corinth church members, he was chiding them for living a life in opposition to being a Christian.

If a person has believed on Christ but lives in sun, they are saved but it’s be loving as Paul did to confront them about their continuing sins as it is a poor witness of Christ himself.

The carnal Christian as those at Corinth has , is s choice. A choice to after having believed to walk in the flesh or walk in the spirit.

They chose salvation but also low must choose to be a disciple of the Lord walking in discipleship which is separate from salvation itself.

So I humbly disagree with some of the views that we can judge the salvation of another and that their works prove they’re saved.

The Holly Spirit after indwelling a person who’s believed will convict of sin. It’s that persons choice to listen or not. There are consequences for the child of God for sinning. Much like an earthly father would discipline his kid for being disobedient, but he is still his father’s kid.

Again Paul struggled with his flesh giving an example of how all saved will. But he chose to work on his discipleship knowing if he did sin he could attribute correctly to Jesus, that it was His work of grace and not Paul’s actions that affirmed he was secure in Christ.

Romans 7:14-25