January 21, 2024: Bible Prophecy Update -- Are We There Yet?

Hi Uturn. It sounds like you might entertain the concept that this age is at least as much an age of “revealing” as is an age of “deception,” by virtue of God demonstrating a clarifying of various differing watcher views? Would that be somewhat accurate?

. . . . .

Hey something occurred to me yesterday. Now this would likely be different than perhaps your overall sense of where America is or is not potentially in prophecy. But I’m thinking to ask because it would be interesting to get your sense of perspective.

With the recent Putin interview and sense of the Ukraine tension, it would be clear at some point approaching Ez 38 that Russia will act in part out of desperation. But of course it would make little sense for Russia to go after Israel if they had a concern of USA retaliation. Which usually is understood that America would have to be significatly weakened. Understood.

But what about this consideration: Could the emerging of BRICS pscychologically for Russia be enough of a buffer of alliance (at some point) for Russia not to fear the USA even if America has similar strength then even as they have today? Could that, in your perspective, be a potential rationalizing (in part) for Russia as to why they might not fear retaliation perhaps?

Thanks, blessings :slight_smile:


What I liken this to is God cleaning house before He tells His Son to go get His bride. Everything is going to be ironed out. The lies will be exposed. No one can hide.

I don’t believe so, unless BRICS can actually successfully produce an alternative digital currency to the dollar. Perhaps they will get there, but perhaps not until after EZ38. One thing for sure, the world shifting towards the EAST is not only occurring, but prophetic as well. Rightfully so, the “kings of East” are rising in power…


There you go again, the view is not the issue, what is, is your and others’ holier-than-thou disrespectful attitude toward others’ thoughts?

You have the freedom to choose so leave mine and others alone. But we know that is not possible, is it?

What can one say to that, well a lot but why bother?



You’re making a mountain out of this, which has been clearly misinterpreted - once again, by you.
Therefore - we will have no more further engagement from here on out. Your perceived notions are not positive at all. Sorry you can’t get over that.


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Of course it isn’t to you, but to be honest I am rethinking a lot of things in the forum. I understand you and your dogmatic attitude and some others here that are the same as you.

But I don’t understand why some check off on your posts like they either don’t care how you treat others or maybe its just not important to them.

Either way I have had my fill of supposed brothers that treat others as you do and others that either do the same of go along with it for their own selfish reasons.

Shalom and I mean it


Just read this minutes ago about those “evil” Qataris… :thinking:

A lot is happening behind the scenes…

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It’s amazing to me how some forcefully try to correct everyone else, and then wonder why they get blowback.

I thought about leaving these forums myself. So far I just disengage and stay for others in PM.

Not every post requires a reply, and that’s kind of the lesson I think we are all learning.

Your choice is of course yours to make. :wink:


Can I ask a favor? I never got the chance to see the info you provided once on the material you have. I would be real interested in what it is. If I am not mistaken you have it a link to it. If you would be so kind as to let me know what it is I would love to go read it.


Thanks Jack. Although I know for sure you are missed here like Dan will also be missed. Although because we are all grown adults, most of the forum back and forth is handled by those who post, we do have the flag system. Its not perfect but I have used it in the past to great effect sometimes. Along with that I have given reasons to the moderators who have generally been extremely helpful. Sometimes maybe it boils down to too much difference of opinion and trust levels and other times it is bad manners or less than gracious expressions and interaction (of which there is no mystery I have trafficked in and always hope to improve and be sanctified through/from). There are times flagging really did not accomplish as much as I might have liked. But in some of those instances…I am really glad they did not.

In a way this whole experience kind of helps me get the sense of maybe God’s insight on the garden strategy of having the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as an option. God wanted real relationship with and from His creation. Pretty amazing. To get that…we have 6 thousand years of horrific and beautiful world history. If we want to experience real love, it comes with huge risk. And often with a bunch of what is not love too. In that quagmire what the believer can look for rising from its ashes is love. I believe that is the reason there is a tribulation and mark of the beast. Because God, in His creation, wants real love from His creation and will have to judge evil…but Adam and Eve were not created so that God could judge His creation forever. Rather, that He have a bride out of His creation.


Part 1 of 2

Apologies for the length of this, I just could not make it any shorter…

I had a busy day today, but as much as it was possible, I kept an eye on the discussions on the forum.

We are all born again brothers and sisters in the Body of Christ, yet we all know too well our old nature is hostile to our new nature in Christ. All our issues arise from our old nature being successful in convincing us to submit to its demands. This goes for all of us, no exception.

As you all noticed, the last couple of days discussions got a bit tense between us. I want to share my thoughts with all of you because the LORD loves each and everyone of us just the same; and He is generous with His love, He never changes, whether we obey Him or not, He still loves us more than we can ever imagine. And because He loves us, He disciplines us. When He sees we’re on the wrong path, He loves us enough to tell us we are wrong.

I chose today, NOT to stay silent because sometimes silence is a sign of cowardice.

Our LORD is not pleased with cowardice, neither was Paul, and he made it clear in his epistles we are to be bold for the RIGHT reasons. And the reason Jesus and Paul were bold is because they had a mission to accomplish.
Jesus came to do the Father’s will, not his own will.
Paul was set apart to be the apostle for the Gentiles and to follow our LORD Jesus in His obedience, and he did it exemplarily.

All glory goes to God for what Paul was able to accomplish. He makes it very clear in 1 Corinthians 15:10 that he is an absolute ZERO without God’s grace in Him.

We are to walk in the Spirit, every day, every hour, every minute, non-stop.

The standard is high. And if we want to be Jesus’ disciples, we have no choice, but to crucify ourselves every second, and resolve to walk in the Spirit. I don’t imply perfectionism, but I do imply being excellent in our walk with the LORD. Here’s what excellent means:

We are to be sincere, without hypocrisy. We are to abhor what is evil and cling to what is good as per Romans 12:9

I looked at 2 Timothy 4:2 and particularly at the word longsuffering.

This word: longsuffering is NOT what most of us think it is. We tend to think it means a unending type of gentle patience and tolerance of situations or people who, for some valid and sincere reasons, do not adhere to sound doctrine. The reasons don’t have to necessarily be evil in nature, though sometimes they are, such as in the case of false teachers. But maybe for many people the reasons are simply lack of knowledge, or not having access to sound teaching.

This is what longsuffering means:

  • long-passion, i.e. waiting sufficient time before expressing anger. This avoids the premature use of force (retribution) that rises out of improper anger (a personal reaction)

At one point, a longsuffering Timothy had valid reasons to get angry, such as when his audience would willingly refuse to adhere to sound doctrine, after they’ve been taught by him, according to Paul’s instructions for him.

And getting angry for the right reason is definitely a godly thing. Paul says: “Be angry, and do not sin” in Ephesians 4:26:

So clearly there’s not only room, but also an urgent need for godly anger, particularly when it comes to the Truth of the Word of God.

Jesus manifested such anger, and Paul did, too. We should, too, for the same right reasons, if we are truly following the LORD. Paul taught us to imitate him in 1 Corinthians 11:1: in all ways, godly anger included.

Ideally, we are sufficiently mature to use this anger in a way that pleases the LORD. One such way is to come before the LORD in prayer regarding something we cannot control. I am to pour out my heart before Him, and believe and accept that God’s way of dealing with what caused my anger is the best way.
I must let God be God. I can cry out to Him, I can express what I feel before Him (like Job did), but I’d better accept that God is sovereign and He knows best how and when to solve the issue that got me angry and I have no control on.

The other thing I want to bring to your attention is:


(I am borrowing here from what I’ve been reading recently, these ideas about boldness are not mine, but I subscribe to all of them.)

"Do you want to live and speak more boldly for Jesus Christ? I do.

How badly do we want it? Do we want it enough to ask, seek, and knock until God answers us and to take risks that press on our timidity? Or, if we’re honest, would we rather just keep wishing we were bolder — admiring bold people, being inspired by biographies about bold people, talking with our friends and small group members about our struggles with fear of man — all the while staying where we feel safe and relatively comfortable and letting fear go unchallenged?

My flesh likes the second option with a more flattering description. The Spirit says, “If you want to walk with me, choose the first.”

There’s the battle line. “The desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do” (Galatians 5:17). But in this battle, there’s no stalemate. One side always holds sway. So, “choose this day whom you will serve” (Joshua 24:15).

If we are serious about choosing the Spirit, God will grant us our request and enable us to “walk by the Spirit [so we] will not gratify the desires of the flesh” (Galatians 5:16).
Luke 11:13

John 15:7

Part 2 of 2

What Is Christian Boldness?

Boldness, in the biblical sense, is NOT a personality trait. A typically soft-spoken, introverted, calm person can be bold at a time when a typically driven, outspoken, brash person shrinks back.

Boldness is acting, by the power of the Holy Spirit, on an urgent conviction in the face of some threat.

That last sentence contains the three ingredients to Christian boldness:

  • Spirit-empowered conviction
  • courage, and
  • urgency

If one of the ingredients is missing, we won’t act boldly.

  1. Without sufficient conviction that something ought to be said or done, what’s there to be bold about?
  2. Without sufficient courage, we don’t have enough fiber in our conviction to face opposition or threats.
  3. Without a sufficient sense of urgency, we lack the fire under our feet to get us moving. People who are halfhearted, fearful, or indifferent are, by definition, not bold.

But if you’re aware of deficiencies in any of these three areas, take heart. The Bible gives us every reason to hope for transformation, and no reason to keep living with debilitating fear.

Jesus Bought Boldness

In Christ, “we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith” to God our Father (Ephesians 3:12).

The truth is there’s no power in heaven or on earth or under the earth that remotely approaches the power of God. He is the only one we need to fear (Luke 12:4–5). And Jesus took upon himself every reason we have to be terrified of God. Now in Christ God is for us. And,

If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? (Romans 8:31–32)

If we can now “with confidence draw near to the throne of grace” (Hebrews 4:16), who then should we fear (Psalm 27:1)? Jesus did not die on the cross to have us quivering in a corner because some human being might say something mean, or stop our paychecks, or sever a relationship, or even kill us (Luke 12:4). No! For Jesus has ensured that,

neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38–39)

The only reason fear-based timidity remains in us is that we don’t believe these mind-blowing promises. What freezing fears might melt away, like snow in April, if we let the bright rays of Romans 8 shine on our shadowy places of unbelief, even for just a week?

The Spirit Empowers Boldness

After sunbathing in Romans 8, we should take an invigorating walk through the book of Acts and watch how Spirit emboldened the early Christians were.

Peter and John, once frozen with fear, when filled with the Holy Spirit, were out preaching the gospel for everyone to hear (see Acts 2:14–41). This soon got them arrested — the very thing that had terrified them before — and their boldness astonished the Jewish authorities, who then “recognized that they had been with Jesus” (Acts 4:13).

Don’t you want to bear that bold spiritual family resemblance? It requires the Spirit of Jesus (Philippians 1:19).

Pray for Boldness!

The early Christians knew this. Post-Pentecost they didn’t always feel bold. In fact, in Acts 4, when the disciples came back from the astonished authorities, they told the church of the threats they received. Everyone understood the implication: persecution and possible execution. So, did they flee back into hiding? No, they prayed for boldness:

“And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness.” . . . And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness. (Acts 4:29, 31)

In answer to prayer, fear melted away and they received a fresh filling of the Holy Spirit and renewed boldness to keep speaking.

Boldness is not constant or taken for granted. We must keep praying for it whenever we need it. Even the apostle Paul experienced this. That’s why he asked the Ephesians to pray that he “may declare [the gospel] boldly, as [he] ought to speak” (Ephesians 6:20). Boldness is not an option for us, but it’s also not a given. Since it is not a constant gift of the Spirit, we must pray for it frequently.

Act the Miracle

But we should not think every time boldness is required we will feel some heroic swell of confidence. God often gives us Spirit-empowered boldness when, in spite of feeling fear, we step out in faith that the Spirit will provide the measure of boldness we need in that moment.

If we look, Acts is full of instances where boldness was given in situations where no doubt the speakers were tempted with fear:

  • In Antioch Pisidia, Paul and Barnabas “spoke out boldly” when the Jews publicly reviled them (Acts 13:46).
  • In Iconium, they were also vigorously opposed, “so they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord” (Acts 14:3).
  • In Ephesus, Apollos spoke “boldly in the synagogue” (Acts 18:26).
  • In Ephesus, Paul taught in the synagogue “and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God” (Acts 19:8).
  • In Caesarea, when Paul was imprisoned, he spoke “boldly” to King Agrippa (Acts 26:26).
  • And the last thing we know about Paul is that, while under house arrest in Rome, he went on “proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance” (Acts 28:31).

Yes, we should pray to be filled with the Spirit. But when boldness is needed in fearful situations, and we act in spite of sweaty palms and pounding hearts, Jesus promises to fill our mouths by the Spirit (Matthew 10:20). And so we act the miracle.

Boldness Is Contagious

And a wonderful thing happens when we act the miracle: others begin to act it, too. Paul described this phenomenon:

And most of the brothers, having become confident in the Lord by my imprisonment, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. (Philippians 1:14)

Paul’s imprisonment for being bold for Christ emboldened other Christians. And we’ve all experienced this in some way. The best way to start a movement of bold witness is to step out in boldness ourselves.

Whatever It Takes, Lord!

And this is just what our flesh emphatically does not want to do. It resists the Spirit in order to keep us from doing what we want to do. To prayerfully pursue boldness in the power of the Spirit requires dying to our flesh (Romans 8:13).

But that’s a death that leads to life! For “to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace” (Romans 8:6). To die to our flesh in order to pursue boldness is really to choose life. That should lead us to pray:

Whatever it takes, Lord, decrease the hold that unbelieving fear has over me and increase my boldness to declare the gospel to everyone you put in my path."

It is also extremely amazing to me in a very sad way, to see that some of us completely misinterpreted and misunderstood @Uturn’s words.

PRIDE is concerned with WHO is right;
HUMILITY is concerned with WHAT is right.

Where did we get the idea that Uturn is obsessed with being right about his views?
People complain about his attitude, but have those people talked to him?

Have people done their due diligence in approaching Uturn directly and asking for his reasons behind what he writes? Until one does that, how can they be so confident about Uturn’s attitude as being arrogant?

We CANNOT just draw a conclusion about anyone’s attitude on this forum based only on what they write. It’s a fact that a forum has limitations. We have to approach a person and ask them: “What do you mean? What motivates you to say what you say?”

Have we done that with @Uturn9319?

Instead of being careful and objectively analyzing the content, the WHAT in @Uturn9319 ’s posts, we fell into the same old trap of the enemy again: we rushed to thoughts in our minds and words in our replies, without adequate reasoning, and we determined and proclaimed that someone’s bold attitude in defending the Truth was actually nothing more than pride, arrogance and harshness towards others.

Instead of taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, we allowed unhealthy thoughts and reasonings to build up in our minds.

This man —@Uturn is characterized by boldness in defending sound doctrine, exactly as described below in the 3 components of Christian boldness:

  • Spirit-empowered conviction
  • courage, and
  • urgency

If one of the ingredients is missing, we won’t act boldly.

  1. Without sufficient conviction that something ought to be said or done, what’s there to be bold about?
  2. Without sufficient courage, we don’t have enough fiber in our conviction to face opposition or threats.
  3. Without a sufficient sense of urgency, we lack the fire under our feet to get us moving. People who are halfhearted, fearful, or indifferent are, by definition, not bold.

Did you all notice in all of Uturn’s posts and replies he does NOT attack people, but rather INCORRECT DOCTRINE? And he does that with both – humility and boldness.

Yes, humility is bold; humility comes from understanding that you are what you are only by God’s grace in you.

Why does one have to attack him personally by claiming to know the attitude of his heart? He never attacks anyone personally.

What he does and MUST do is respond to people claiming to know his heart’s attitude accusing him of arrogance. And I noticed when he rejects those claims, he is immediately blamed of playing the victim card.

Is Uturn anything special? He is just as special as ANY of us are in God’s eyes, because we are ALL members of the same body. Paul clearly taught:

1 Corinthians 12:18
“But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.”

Is Uturn smarter than anyone on this forum?
The smartest man on earth, without the gift of discernment and teaching from the Spirit, would be completely irrelevant.

The weight and authority in Uturn’s words are simply the gifts of the Spirit of God, giving him understanding of both the Bible and current events as they relate to prophecy.

The LORD decided to use @Uturn9319 up until now on this forum. He may continue to do so, or He may decide to use someone else in future.

The LORD is sovereign here, He will do whatever He pleases, through whoever He chooses.
Am I so smart that I could tell God who to use? I think not.

When I joined this forum I mostly read and did not start to post until last fall, 2023. I was just not ready, I was extremely sick and the reading always helped to a certain extent while I was so sick.

But with reading and listening to too much you can get into quite a bit of trouble, because you read both good and bad teachings and doctrine. And that’s what happened to me. And I have to ”examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;“ as Paul taught in ‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5‬:‭21.‬

Last fall while I was reading and studying the Bible the best I could with help from many pastors, teachers, books, conferences, something happened while I was reading on the forum.

@Uturn9319 's corrections of unsound teachings were firm and they carried with them a weight and authority that I could not ignore.

The LORD, to this day, DOES call some to be teachers, not too many as the apostle James writes, and because these teachers are called by God, they speak with the much needed boldness and authority.

I will repeat it again, it’s all about God’s grace in any of His servants. No faithful servant of the LORD can boast about himself because they know the wisdom comes from the LORD.

But one thing a servant MUST do, is contribute their due diligence and study to show themselves approved. And this hard work, together with the wisdom and discernment provided by the Spirit make up a good and faithful servant.

At the beginning I sincerely hoped he was wrong about the possibility of the Rapture happening in September/October of 2023. I was so ill that I wanted out of this world via the Rapture as fast as I could. However, the more I read, the more I began to understand that the content of Uturn’s posts was biblically sound.

The anointing of the Spirit does teach us about all things…

Soon, we will all find out about the famous “Psalm 83 War Fable” that has bothered so many of us, and we will put this annoying issue to rest.

I have hope for this forum, but that doesn’t mean that my hope equals God’s will, too. The LORD can do whatever He pleases with the forum. His will is always the best thing that can happen to us! My prayer regarding this forum is “May Your will be done, LORD!”

I am grateful for everything I learned here, the LORD, through the Spirit’s guidance, has been gracious to me. I’ve interacted with quite a few of you, and I pray that the LORD blesses each and every one of you.

You are ALL dearly and equally loved by our God. Always. Nothing can change that, ever.

I do not see myself better than any other human being, on the contrary, I see others much better than I see myself, I know what a mere mortal is capable of…

I know my “heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it?”

The LORD can know it, and He surely does. He sees everything.

But I found a really precious gem: “I am willing to learn, to become a better follower of our LORD Jesus, every day. And more so because the time we have left is so short!”

And strange… the more I learn, the more I realize that there is still so much to discover and learn. No chance of ever getting bored while walking with our LORD!

Luke 11:9-10

So I say to you,
ask, and it will be given to you;
seek, and you will find;
knock, and it will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks receives,
and he who seeks finds,
and to him who knocks it will be opened.

The LORD is so good to us that He is willing to bless everyone, let’s just be willing to be taught by Him.

And Maranatha!
Our King is indeed coming soon!

P.S. For more on “Christian Boldness” see my previous 2 replies on this thread. I read about boldness from someone else and I was blessed with a much better understanding of it.

Locking temporarily, only because it seems the Holy Spirit needs some elbow room. Pastor JD is quoted below from this January 21 update. He is speaking of political arguments, but I suspect there is a thread of wisdom within it regardless of topic or position.

Suffice it to say, confusion, deception, and by extension, division abounds. We talked about
this last week. Jesus said, “A house divided cannot stand.” Satan knows that. So how is he
going to get that house to fall? Divide it. The saying is, “United we stand; divided we fall.”
It’s textbook divide and conquer.

And this is the mechanism that Satan uses, and the lead up to it is to create confusion,
chaos. And then what ensues is always what ensues, and that’s division. And then once he
can divide — and can I just ask you rhetorically, are we divided over politics? Come on. He
did it. And this is how. This is what he intended to do in and for the end. This was the end
game. Get them so confused, so deceived that they’ll be so divided. And I got them. And
that’s where we are.

But God, as only He can, has taken that which is intended for evil and is working it for the
good in the salvation of many this day. Be that as it may, I will continue to pray that eyes will
be open to see, and ears will be open to hear what the Spirit is saying to the church today in
this the very last day.