@Maranatha I saw your post over on the prophecy update, and while I was watching this today, I sort of thought this study might add to your understanding. Or was this what inspired the question? (I’m all too often a day late and a dollar short. haha…)
I’m at best a work in progress until glorification and (hopefully!) constantly gathering closer to Jesus. I am saved, and yet repeatedly broken in sin. The work is done, but I have a hard time trusting and accepting that. So, in the hypothetical “what if someone does xyz? Are they saved?” I’ve come to understand that our opinion doesn’t really matter. I can’t know someone else’s heart, so it’s left between them and the Lord. So that means that my encouragement to anyone comes simply from knowing the joy of walking with the Lord and wanting the same for them. No matter if they’re unsaved or stumbling or lukewarm or just having a rough day, the answer is the same. His love is unconditional, you will find that no where else, accept it today and every day! God is so good, any distance from Him can only be painful, even temporary, but how much worse if it’s eternal. So let’s ALL go follow Jesus, quickly and joyfully!
thank you, Twi. I did watch this video (it’s very good) but it was not necessarily what inspired the question . It was a video by Andy Woods that made me think. He talked about partial rapture and how that is not true, and I totally agree with him on that. But I also noticed he believes in OSAS and I just can’t wrap my mind around that because of my friend who accepted Jesus as her Savior as a child and now she no longer believes (she told me that!) and she thinks that there are many ways to get saved and she thinks Jesus was just a tribe leader. She told me all of that.
Anyway, I know you’re right. My opinion doesn’t matter and it’s not up to me to say whether someone is saved or not. But I can’t help but wanting to KNOW… and to study myself approved haha!
I know someone very close to me who thought they had accepted Jesus as their Saviour when they were young, but as a young adult they realized they hadn’t. They never actually had faith themselves, they just believed what others said. They had faith in the adults around them, which is what a child should have really, but as they grew they also needed to build their own faith and their relationship with Jesus. It’s that mixing of faith Pastor JD spoke of that was missing. Praying for your friend no matter what.
I have exactly the same concern with the OSAS teaching.
In Hebrews they talk about believers who fall away;
“It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age
6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”
It says they had been enlightened, they tasted the heavenly gift, they had shared in the Holy Spirit, they had tasted the goodness of the Word of God, and the powers of the coming age.
That sure sounds like someone who was Saved to me.
But despite all of that all you get is an immediate reply saying “they were never saved in the first place.”
I have read the Bible for over 30 years and always learn something new. Why does this verse and Hebrews 10:26 cause such a reaction? They are a part of the Word of God but they sure are a hot button with some.
I am not trying to change the Word of God, but I am also not trying to ignore it, just an honest query that falls on one side or the other. Either the Bible means what it says or we can make it mean whatever we want.
Hebrews 10: 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
I looked up that Bible verse again this morning because I also kept thinking about it and like you said “that sure sounds like someone who was saved to me”. I’ll just keep diving into God’s Word and I’m asking me to teach me the truth and the right explanation about everything
Thanks Twi for the prayers for my friend! It makes me so sad that she doesn’t believe and that she thinks that there are many ways to God . I’m praying daily for her as well. It makes sense what you said about children accepting Jesus when they were young, and then as a young adult realizing they did not!
Once TRULY saved always TRULY saved. Otherwise the Jesus is a liar.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Past tense. There are over 100 verses that confirm this in scripture.
We can’t do anything to get saved nor can we do anything to stay saved.
“IT IS FINISHED!”
But there are those who believe “in vain” and those who call upon Him but not in truth. Their lips praise Jesus but their hearts are far from God. They went out from us necause they were never of us.
Backsliding Christians are going to be delt with usually by chastisement from Him. They may suffer and have very little reward in heaven but will be there.
If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
I Corinthians 3:14-15
thank you ! Yes, that makes sense
To anyone that might be interested in an explanation of the Hebrews 6:4-6 verses and how OSAS can still apply, Andy Woods has 3 videos on his ‘unofficial channel’ that explain it. (links of these videos are below the link to the playlist)
In his playlist he takes the time to rebut all the arguments against the doctrine of eternal security, also known as OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved).
Here’s the link to the playlist: Andy Woods - Soteriology and OSAS - YouTube
And here is the link to video 41, the first of the three regarding Heb 6:4-6: Andy Woods - Soteriology 41: OSAS & Hebrews 6:4-6 Part I - YouTube
For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 9:13-14 NKJV
If someone outright rejects Christ they were never saved. If true belief has taken place then you HAVE eternal life. If we could lose salvation we all would have. Peter, Paul, John, Mark all would be in hell. How can you have a clean conscience if you could lose salvation?
Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age
6 and who have fallenfn away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
To hold onto scriptures that say what you want and ignore or dismiss others scriptures that were written by the unction of the Holy Spirit just so you can continue with your opinion is not rightly dividing the Word of God.
First give evidence, not opinions, as to why Hebrews 6:4-6 does not mean what it clearly says.
Not to do so is indicative of a selective belief of the Word of God.
You expect others to accept the OSAS dogma based on opinions of the likes of Andy Woods and Charles Ryrie over the clear writings of the Holy Spirit?
Please do not take this as a personal rebuke
I’m sorry. I am not going to argue with you. I have wrestled with this most of my life never being sure I would make it. God led me to the truth and I am secure that there is nothing , nothing, NOTHING, that can separate me from his love. He Chose me from the foundation of the World. He knew me before I was born. He scheduled each day of my life. He Promised me I would be with him in eternity. I am either saved ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME or His death was in vain. That’s all I will say on the matter. Love in Christ.
By the way, I learned the exact opposite from pastors. I was taught that I could lose my salvation and that was why I had years of struggles always wondering if I would make it or not. But God showed me through his word and His Spirit.
Thank you sister in Christ.
We will agree to disagree.
That is about spiritual gifts not salvation.
Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian. But Jesus purchased (not rented) us. His name means salvation not probation. The Gospel means good news, and is a gift. Grace through faith are ye saved. Past tense.
Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever. Oh, give thanks to the God of gods! For His mercy endures forever. Oh, give thanks to the Lord of Lords! For His mercy endures forever: To Him who alone does great wonders, For His mercy endures forever; To Him who by wisdom made the heavens, For His mercy endures forever; To Him who laid out the earth above the waters, For His mercy endures forever; To Him who made great lights, For His mercy endures forever— The sun to rule by day, For His mercy endures forever; The moon and stars to rule by night, For His mercy endures forever. To Him who struck Egypt in their firstborn, For His mercy endures forever; And brought out Israel from among them, For His mercy endures forever; With a strong hand, and with an outstretched arm, For His mercy endures forever; To Him who divided the Red Sea in two, For His mercy endures forever; And made Israel pass through the midst of it, For His mercy endures forever; But overthrew Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea, For His mercy endures forever; To Him who led His people through the wilderness, For His mercy endures forever; To Him who struck down great kings, For His mercy endures forever; And slew famous kings, For His mercy endures forever— Sihon king of the Amorites, For His mercy endures forever; And Og king of Bashan, For His mercy endures forever— And gave their land as a heritage, For His mercy endures forever; A heritage to Israel His servant, For His mercy endures forever. Who remembered us in our lowly state, For His mercy endures forever; And rescued us from our enemies, For His mercy endures forever; Who gives food to all flesh, For His mercy endures forever. Oh, give thanks to the God of heaven! For His mercy endures forever.
Psalms 136:1-26 NKJV
I recognize Andy’s power points when I see them. So glad he offers them for free on church website.
“Revelation 22:19 (NIV) And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.“
Now that you have pointed out your OSAS point of view I wonder if God should have left this out?
Who is the talking to? He says that person has a share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, but it will be taken from them.
Having an opinion and intentionally ignoring scriptures that refute your opinion.
A true believer would not take away or add to this book or any book in the Bible. Having said that it is impossible to be perfect even after calling on the name of Jesus as your Savior and believing in the gospel. There is also a warning in previous chapter
"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
Have you ever told a lie since you have been saved? Have you ever been a coward?