I know they are different, they are both promises, but they are directed at both the same people, believers in Christ.
You either have all of it or none of it.
You are forgiven once or you are never forgiven.
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Let me give you a bit of personal history, left the RCC at around 14 or 15 years of age. Was involved in the charismatic movement and then finally at the age of 23, I donât know if that is impressionable or not, was invited by my older brother to go to church with him.
I then accepted salvation and was then baptised a few months after that.
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So my walk, or my stumbling, as I prefer to call it, has been around 18 years long. Sometimes I am crawling but I know that I always crawl back.
I am a have been fornicator, a liar a thief, a slanderer, an accuser and a murderer. That is why I believe what I believe.
I was a thief on a cross, God in his mercy took me off that cross, I will always be a thief but now I am a believing repentant thief.
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I have lost many crowns and rewards and I will be standing in shame for many things I did and did not do. I am going up, I donât deserve it and there is nothing I can do to earn it, buy it or work for it.
The consequence of being caught up is the condition of accepting salvation.
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I will repeat you either believe or you donât believe, that does not mean you will be perfect. How can a perfect being expect his followers to be perfect all the time ? Impossible, God knows this. That is what grace is for. If the grace of God and Jesusâ sacrifice is not enough then I donât know what is.
This is a non issue for me. If you can identify all the members who think this way and want to have a go with them go ahead. Iâll leave it with God.
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Here if I may say, we need to make the distinction between salvation and sanctification.
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I was reading scriptures this morning, and found myself in Matthew 25. Jesus told his disciples the two parables of the ten virgins and the talents on the heels of His description of the end of the age in Matthew 24. Itâs these two parables that give me pause.
Prior to telling the parables, Jesus describes the faithful and wise servant, who is rewarded for being found doing the masterâs business. It doesnât bode well for the evil servant.
In the footnotes of my bible, it is written, âOil in the Bible is a symbol of the Holy SpiritâŠThe Lord of the household is not being rude when he denies entrance to the foolish virgins; he assumes those who really want to join in the festivities will be prepared.â I understand this is commentary, but I cannot take issue with it.
Then, regarding the parable of the talents, âThis parable warns believers to diligently take everything God has given and invest it for His glory as they await Christâs second coming. This parable teaches the truth that Jesusâ followers are duty-bound to work to expand His kingdom in His absence, no matter how long the wait.â
For me, the bottom line question is, Does God expect anything of those who believe?
Obviously, if one is âhiredâ at the end of the day, to join others already working the vineyard, the answer is No. But, if we are âhiredâ early on, we must be faithful and be found working. (Matthew 20:1-16)
I think if we replaced the word âwork(s)â with the word âloveâ and âdoingâ with âlovingâ we will find a place of agreement. God expects us to LOVE, as He is Love.
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That I can agree with 100 percent
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These discussions just help remind us how important it is that we are all reading the whole Bible, esp the NT, for ourselves, seeing what Godâs Word says. The whole of it, not snipets of it and little verses the church wants to pull out. What a blessing to have the Word and that the Holy Spirit will reveal to us all knowledge and convict us of the truths throughout scripture. I donât doubt anyoneâs salvation here. Many warnings for us in the NT and our faith is an active living faith. May we all encourage one another to read it all, to just take it all in and be built up in the knowledge of Christ. Blessings to you all!
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Newish believer here 
, feeling a little confused now about Matthew 25. I believe on Jesusâ work on the cross for our sins, and not works. So Iâm feeling a little weird/concerned about Matthew 25 now - any clarification would be greatly appreciated 
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I believe your heart greatly loves the Lord and we see differently Ed. But just chiming in here. I would see the book of Hebrews as very similar in structure and warning (there have been many studies on thisâŠnot just a fly by night offering here) as their wandering for 40 years in the desert, and the implications âto the Jews,â was that if you donât leave the law behind and fully embrace Christ as a people you like those who would not enter the promise land and you as a chosen people will miss your very chance to get on board in what now God is doing as a people (thus called: Hebrews). In 70 AD, they lost that chance completely as a nation. Understanding the book of Hebrews in this like is know as comparing it with the Kadesh Bernea generation. I know you are not interested in the opinions of scholarsâŠbut some who would like to compare what you say with how others have seen this now have that opportunity as well.
When I read 1 Cor 15:2 it is heavily surrounded by âbeliefâ topics. The Corinthians were extremely wayward. What were they doing exactly that honored Christ? I kind of ask that in funâŠbecause most of the book is everything they are doing that is wrong, wrong, wrong. After 1 Cor 15:2 see how much is about belief. Looking at verse 12 âNow if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?â â is that the OSAS issue? Whether we believe in Christ as raised bodily from the dead? Or that we might? Context in what I have seen is more powerful than even what Greek words mean. Ok, just wanted to add a disclaimer for those who might want to do some further research. Blessings.
I had been in Lordship Salvation church for over 20 years. They mix up grace and works in unique and creative ways. But it is good that we are instructed to honor the Lord, the word, the spirit and become fruitful. Ed and I will see this differently, but I side with your confusion. I think you are confused because you should be. Notice those believers said, âLord when did weâŠâ Its the displaying the fruit of a believing heart not works that Christ is showing there. If we compare this with Matt 7:15-23. Those in the Lordship Salvation camp many I believe are saved but they do present problems. I am not saying ED is Lordship Salvation. He is coming from his own convictions. But in Matt 7 the warning is to those who have good works to offer. Something you never hear preached by the Lordship Salvation group. Yet there it is bold like a newspaper headline.
Not sure but I was under the impression that this was speaking to the Sadducees and Phariseeâs that crucified Christ off the top of my head?
Similar to the fallen Angels even thought they knew the truth they chose to rebell. even though many of the Sadducees and Phariseeâs knew Jesus came from God they still choice to rebel.
Shalom
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Karyn what would be you take on Luke 19:11-27 when compared to the parable of the talents? This oneâs money is not removed. Could one be the focus on Israel and the other those who come after the nation of Israel has ceased to exist?
Apologies to all for my repetitious words. Feel free to scroll past this post.
Brother, Teren and I have had a long standing lively banter and yet to have come to an understanding. 
Hi, Teren. 
Ive heard you say, âwrath doesnt mean wrath, repent doesnt mean repent, awakening doesnt mean awakening and this delightful new meaning here where extrabiblical doesnt mean extrabiblical.â
Reminds me of the rascal of a president who once uttered the memorable phrase âIt depends on what the meaning of the word âisâ is."
The average person understands a word based on its literal meaning.
And a Christian understands the biblical meaning of a word based on usage in scripture.
So when a Christian is told that they have extrabiblical leanings and need to repent they take that literally.
The result of hearing that one should repent from their extrabiblical leanings would have a very unedifying and confusing effect upon a believer.
I am sure that is not the intention, as one of the main goals of having
a forum gathering of believers would be to encourage and edify our fellow
brothers and sisters.
If I may suggest would it not be wise to consider that perhaps letting
your 15 years of political science teaching (extrabiblical) to influence your understanding of eschatology might be, in your words
âextrabiblical insight via eisegesetical theory underscoring eschatologyâ? 
Im sorry my tomato deflated you as I would be also be sorry to see a tomato
rot and deflate.
See I knew that we would finally agree on some things.
You were the one with the Bolshevik connection.
I had to google âBolshevikâ to see that that was not a compliment.
I think the whole thing funny, so dont worry Im not offended.
OK, so this is where I fall down the Teren hole or question whether I have dementia.
The question doesnt even compute to my way of thinking or understanding
as never would I even watch or trust CNN and to connect it with âBolshevikâ
is way over the stretch of my simple mind to contemplate.
My words are quite easily understood as they are simple.
From the words of a loved childrens book:
Im an elephant faithful one hundred percent
I meant what I said and I said what I meant.
Shall we sayâlike a greased pig at the state fair.
It is your misunderstanding and assumption that the church or JD is developing
theology based on Q, NAR, Trump or any other source but scripture.
It would seem more so that it is you who seems to be baseing much of your understanding of eschatological events on what happens with Trumpâ
than the church baseing its theology on Trump and QâŠ
We dont interpret scripture by events, we interpret events by scripture.
What you pass off as âthe Luciferian Light conspiracyâ is actually a major biblical concept that began in the Garden of Eden and ends in Revelation.
It is not an understanding gleaned from Trump, NAR, etc or any other of
the current massive net leading the soon coming endtime culmination.
Do a search of the scriptures with the word âlightâ. It is a fascinating understanding how that theme runs through the entirety of scripture.
And then in John, the wonderous verse when Jesus came and said, âI Am the Lightâ.
In Genesis the battle between man choosing the light of Lucifer or the light
which is God began.
God created âlightâ ,( physically and symbolically) and said that it was good.
And He separated the âlightâ from the âdarknessââJust as those who walk
in the light of God are separate from those who walk in darkness.
Satan enticed Eve into eating forbidden fruit of âknowedge and good and evilâ
(gnosisâhidden âlight of satanâ----âdarknessâ masquarading as âlightâ.
She was âawakenedâ to the "light of Satan or Lucifer meaning âlightbearerâ.)
The battle ends in Revelation:
Revelation 22:5 (KJV) 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
One would have to work very hard not to see that âthe awakeningâ is
the longed for expectation of every false demonic group.
Freemasons, Illuminati, Hindus, Buddists, Kabbalists, New Age, all Eastern religions, mystics, wiccans and now apostate Christianity (infiltrated by the spirit of Antichrist) await the âenlightenmentâ and the âoneâ who will bring it to
completion.
When we teach that the coming âAwakeningâ is a time of blessing and if we dont have open minds âwe might miss out on something goodâ as you
have warned, might we not be encouraging people to consider a false revival
as from God when it has already been said in scripture that it will have signs and wonders so as to fool the very elect if that were possible?
The phrase âyou dont want to miss out on what God is doingâ is one of the best indoctrinating tools in NAR, WOF, etc.
This is fear motivation and manipulation. We as believers need not worry about missing out on anything God is doing or will do.
If you think that God is going to give us a âtime of blessingâ with a revealing
of His Goodness so we will turn to Him, then I would suggest you google
Dedsmond the child trans drag queen, who began his drag career at age 8
to get an indication of the rebellious and wicked generation in which we live.
The issue of your words about âawakeningâ is where I am like a âdog with a boneâ.
JD is warning people of coming deception and to not embrace it.
That is true biblical insight and wisdom.
Blessings, my dear brother, Teren
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OK,
That seems to say the more plain and simple the more understanding and less chance for error correct? Literal and then self interpreting when not when not literal.
Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psalm 19:7
The teachings of the LORD are perfect. They renew the soul. The testimony of the LORD is dependable. It makes gullible people wise.
Proverbs 6:23
For this commandment is a lamp, this teaching is a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way to life,
Shalom
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Thank you for the reply. I suppose I should talk a bit about how things happened in my life.
I went through a deep depression. And honestly, the Lord saved me from it. Not only saved from the depression, but saved from the person I used to be. I cared about âthingsâ and I was selfish. I cared about all the wrong things. I looked into the mirror and it wasnât pretty.
I felt the Lord come to me, and He started changing me. I no longer wanted to be that old me. I started reading the Bible. Having an intimate relationship with Him. Repenting for the many sins I had done. A lot of âsmack to the foreheadâ, kind of a feeling of cringe, when Iâd remember things Iâd done or thought were important back then. And every time Iâd remember one of those sins, I repent because I am ashamed of how I used to live and what I thought was important in life.
And of course I still sin, but when I do, it pains me, and I talk with the Lord and I ask for forgiveness. I love to talk with the Lord and spend time with Him. I enjoy His presence and feel joy and peace. I am so thankful to Him for what He has done for me, a sinner. He has changed who I am, and Iâm forever grateful. However, I do have rough times where I do not feel peace and joy, as I am human, and Iâm going through quite a bit right now. When I start to feel overwhelmed, I try to remember to praise Him through the storm, because even the valleys can help me to cling closer to Him. That these valleys that seem so hard, that he can turn them to good, for His reason and His will and His glory. Before He saved me, Iâd pray an âOur Fatherâ, probably not even feeling the words. Now I know what true prayer is, and I am so thankful for His guidance on how to really pray. He has changed my life, and I want to do what He wants, to be the person that He wants me to be.
He is the Lord of Lords, the King of Kings, my Father, my Creator, my Savior, He in I, I in Him, the Alpha and Omega.
So Iâm not sure if this is really a response as much as a testimony to what He has done in my life as a child of Jesus Christ.
Blessings
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Thanks for your reply Gigi. WowâŠthanks for spending the time. Good job sister :). My day is a bit scattered but I want to absorb and reply where appropriately. At least in the beginning here I will need to break it up a little but hopefully reply in bigger chunk later. Blessings 
So for nowâŠfor startersâŠ(Iâll address you Luciferian light concerns etc, hopefully later today dear sister).
Thanks Gigi for saying âI am sure that is not the intention,â and no it wasnât. I appreciate you saying that But in all honesty Gigi, if someone places a slight creative nuance and explains also what they mean (in fitting with an understanding of course not to be non-edifying) in the same paragraphâŠI mean I guess I do understand coming at non-clarityâŠbut is it really?
a) repenting of extra biblical leanings = sound mindedness
b) there is potential in seeing extra biblically on the opposite side as well (especially as an orientation flowing from an original experience that would admittedly be straying into extra biblical territory such as Qanon)
c) I honor differing views and have my own strange oneâs I never said were not extra biblical (for all of ours areâpending)
d) Even though I have my preferred view I do consider others here on this forum. I may not agreeâŠbut as we discuss our different takes of where we think things might be right now and the direction they are goingâŠmost to much of that in any of our minds would be seen by each of us as potentially comporting with scripture, but also knowing it could be different here or there from scripture because ultimately we all will have to see.
e) I thought Trump as AC, i know what its like to be suspicious of the man.
f) The media will feed our bias coming out and away from Qanon (this opens doors to their trickery regardless)
g) The least likely outcome of what things mean will most likely be CNN. Recognizing that might give room for pause.
My reason for restating a-g is not to offer my innocents. For if my wording had offended @LDHW i sincerely apologize and ask for forgiveness. Or any others including you Gigi. I hope to be more careful with that sort of thing in the future. But my hope was not say this person or that person is all extra biblical and needs to repent. We are on a prophesy forum with means we know there are things that will be accurately assessed as Pastor JD does due diligence to bring clarity to our age. But it is kind of a given that in the arena of prophesy as it unfolds, well, yeah there is going to be quite a bit of guess work. What is not guess work is that CNN plays minds gamesâŠand to include them in any sense of healing or wink toward prophecy is dangerous and the same us vs. them motif we all hope to stray from. But mostly my reason for bringing it up in a sense though Gigi is not to be super accurate with everyoneâs word definitions, but to promote healthy self awareness of where we might be doing this extra biblical thing ourselves. To me, that is worth pointing out. Not at the expense of anyone hopefully. I went to cessationist central church for decadesâŠand they have eisegesis popping out all over the place. I would consider that extra biblical. To me it is a common notionâŠnot just something done on a windy night in a sĂ©ance. I know that is just meâŠbut itâs not a bad idea to see how we might, no? Which is why I quoted my paragraph with repent in it. That we might consider. Should we not consider? Your take that the right and the left are in cahoots and will become the new world order operating in Hegelian Dialectic as you may see it? And this is absolute authoritative scripture is it?
Yeah but I already know that. Why bother? For this simple notion: I believe the character of Godâs good heart is what closes the age of grace. We see that differently. That doesnât mean we have a great awakening and man kind evolves. Or Trump brings in the 1,000 year reign of ChristâŠlol. That just means, to me, that God may exit the age of grace with us with a possible grand finale of sorts. This too is extrabibilcal. But the character of God discerned through scripture is not. You see wrath. And I see wrath. You see wrath perhaps months approaching the tribulation. I see wrath at the tribulation. That does not mean I changed what wrath means. That does not mean that because i see how that applies your version and definition of wrath is most accurate. Which was the point I was hopeful to challenge how overly settled we might be in our own versions of what we see things unfolding like. I can say, âGigi, your version of wrath might be correct. And maybe all hell breaks lose 6 months or 5 years before the tribulation/â And although it pains me to say that because I truly donât believe it, I strive to see through your eyes (I know you do tooâŠbut you make me rather work for itâŠlolâŠdonât ya now?) 
Here is a small measure of proof in what I say: There is a thought that Ezekiel 38 occurs 3.5 years to 7 years prior to the tribulation. Now that is extreme judgement years in advance of the tribulation. I do see this as a reasonable possibility. And it is a rather probable one.
As for my sociopolitical viewpoint, well, that is one arena this is all going down. We might look at what might occur in the USA with voter fraud as a religious ideology. I donât. I just see it as an historical event. And if it goes in favor of TrumpâŠwhat a box of cats that will be. I may be wrong. But its worth discussion at least a little because we are on the cusp of itâŠand it may mean something religious or related to prophecy and the dangers of the enemyâŠbut it will mean politicalâŠwhich is not an unreasonable place to start in that it is âat leastâ that. For what our country goes through this summer, Fall, and next year, will be politicalâŠfor that is what we see occurring. The spiritual viewpoints will vary depending on how a believer is looking at eschatology. One way to look at political events and socio-political events is politically and socio-politically because that is kind of what they are. On that one pointâŠthere is nothing extra biblically in looking at socio political things socio-politically. Yes when I factor in my spiritual convictions it is extra biblical. But I can view the political without that. I look at January 6th aside from my convictions. Knowing how the left operatesâŠand how the right also operatesâŠand the evidences coming in and the fact that the left showed fake evidence on live TV during an impeachmentâŠyawnâŠyeahâŠthat is not rocket science. Nor is it extra biblical. Its political opinion. And I encourage everyone to have their own political opinions. But more so those above amen. More comingâŠLord willing.
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thank you - that really warmed my heart!
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Oh I love that! Everything to a tee that you said is me also! A huge Amen!
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