June 6, 2021: Bible Prophecy Update

I enjoy reading the back and forth and appreciate the respect that everyone is showing in their responses.
I guess, from reading everything, my conclusion will be defined in a word picture.
Imagine prophecy as a beach ball on a basketball court.
There are many players moving the ball around the court.
Spectators differ on how they approach the game.
Some never take their eyes off the ball, while others speculate where the ball will land if so and so does this, or so and so does that. I appreciate both approaches but I am the spectator who just keeps my eye on the ball.
Prophecy is proof of God and his word, so as the ball lands, I see every promise come true.
If I start speculating where the ball might land, I get sidetracked from the object itself.
In no way am I saying that I am right, or wrong, in my view, it is just where God has led me in this confusing time. He knows what a little sheep I am and how easily I can stray from the flock and my Shepherd.
I tried viewing future prophecy from every angle and I about sank like the titanic.
Carry on, this little birdie just wanted to chirp chirp her two cents worth.

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That is beautiful!! Praise the Lord for His work in your life and I am so thankful for your testimony, strengthened by it, and encouraged by it. May God continue to bless you and you continue to draw close to Him in all things! Blessings

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So glad Iā€™m not the same creature either. But even so a work in progress.
I still pray our father often especially when I want to make sure I touch all the basics 1st then move on deeper from there.

Thanks for sharing brother even though we all walk the path individually in one way in many other ways we truly walk together.

Shalom

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Hi @Faith1,

Your candid testimony brought to mind some verses which continue to provide Godā€™s comfort, care, compassion and conviction when I stumble in my walk with the Lord, which is often.

Pressing Toward the Goal

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3

17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank Godā€”through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Romans 7

Both these excerpts echo the entirety of the Scripture which confirm our Lord Jesus Christ as the Only Saviour Always Stated (OSAS for short).

In Christ

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Sometimes I think I have a touch of ADD so that donā€™t work for me kind of of jealous in a most sanctified way :upside_down_face:

Just proves it takes all kinds to make up a moving body. Thatā€™s why we should not forsake the assembling with one another even as the day gets closer. If an when the enemy removes us from the forum I will cherish the times and look forward for our great gathering together in the Clouds.

Love the analogy Iā€™m smiling.

Maranatha

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Thank youšŸ˜. I do appreciate everyone and how they see things, I learn a lot.
We are all so important to Jesus so we should be the same to each other.
One day soon, we will be at that banquet table, with new eyes, enjoying each other ever so much. I canā€™t wait!

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Itā€™s been over half an hour, about a 1000 other things have crossed my path and mind, but I canā€™t stop wondering why thereā€™s a beach ball on a basketball court. :joy: How did the beach ball get there? Is the court near the beach? Will people try to shoot it in the hoop? (It wonā€™t fit!) I donā€™t know what this says about me in the metaphor (which I thought was great btw, but this detail just hooked me) please pray for me :rofl:

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Lol :rofl:! Well, the most important detail we both missed was itā€™s colorā€¦and who inflated the dang thing?

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I guess this is what happens when your imagination rolls away from you so easily

giant-beach-ball

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I love it! My imagination has a mind of itā€™s own and can either amuse me or drive me crazy. Thank God for His anchor huh?!

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I just read this today and wondered if it fit this current discussion. 2 Peter, 2:20-22 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: ā€˜A dog returns to its vomit,ā€™ and, ā€˜A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.ā€™

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is OSAS like a religious group of its own?

it sounds to me like this is a discussion where ā€œOSASā€ is not being understood the same way on both sides. Jaimie seems to refer to it as a scriptural sentiment, whereas your reference seems to be of a group of people, like a denomination of its own, kinda like jehovas witnesses. genuine scripture being twisted.

is that the case, that you are referring to a religious group?

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Often in the OSAS argument, one who is trying to explain the security of the believer because of Gods mercy and faithfulness, is accused of wanting to live like the devil and still be saved.

This is often due to the kind of definition of OSAS being used.

For my part, as I have said before many times, OSAS is only true, for the true believer. But OSAS IS biblical in regards to salvation.

This excludes any who would simply claim the name, but go on about their lives with no real relationship with Christ, and nor real change in their nature. IE: the ones who would say ā€œLord, Lordā€¦ ?!?ā€

So we can dispense with the easy-believe-ism definition right here and now, and we can also dispense with the critical, sarcastic, and scornful labeling of lost souls in a form of hypocrisy, as if they know better than others who is saved or not and are able to make that call. There is ONLY one judge over all and above all, and His name is Jesus the Christ.

I see the aspect of Free Will being only for the choice to accept Christ or not. Once accepted, you have entered a covenant much like that made with Abraham where our sacrifice is a penitent heart and broken spirit, to which He applies His Sonā€™s sacrifice in exchange to meet the demands of this covenant. We surrender our (Free) will to God, and His will takes precedence.

This covenant is solely dependent on God to maintain and enforce to the point that He saves us from even ourselves.

  • 2 Timothy 2:13 reminds us that it is He who maintains our salvation.
  • Ephesians 2:8-9 reminds us that it is nothing we have done, or can do to earn it.
  • Romans 8:38-39 would remind us that nothing can separate us from His love through Jesus Christ.
  • And lastly John 10:27-30 shows that ā€œNO ONEā€ can snatch them out of His hand. This is inclusive of ourselves. He saves us from ourselves.

Eternal life is not eternal if you can lose it.

If it is a gift, what kind of misrepresentation of God is it, to say He would take the gift back once received, or that we could be powerful enough to break a covenant He made solely that has nothing on our part to initiate or maintain?

And this is the crux of the problem, a lack of faith, and a dependency in our minds to require us to do something to maintain it. Turning it into a works deal, and therefore no longer a gift but a wage.

We are insufficient, but His grace IS sufficient! :slight_smile:


2 Timothy 2:13

If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.


Ephesians 2:8-9

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.


Romans 8:38-39

For I am convinced that neither death nor life,
neither angels nor principalities,
neither the present nor the future,
nor any powers,
neither height nor depth,
nor anything else in all creation,
will be able to separate us
from the love of God
that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


John 10:27-30

My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish.
No one can snatch them out of My hand.
My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all.
No one can snatch them out of My Fatherā€™s hand.

I and the Father are one.

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This is for Saved by Graceā€¦not you Jaimie! Donā€™t know what happened.

Huh? No one that is a saved child of God, will be left behind at the Rapture. No One.
Those left behind at the rapture may have ā€œhead knowledgeā€ but never gave Jesus their lives and trusted in Him alone for salvation.

How cruel would our Savior be if He took some of His church and left some behind? NO way would this ever happen.

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Iā€™m sorry, But if you can LOSE your salvation, then why would anyone ever get saved? If you give me your last hundred dollars and I lose it gambling would you ever give me another hundred dollars?

I mean, if Jesus giving His very Life for me isnā€™t enough then why did He even do it? What more could He give? He did it ONCE for ALL. That I might have eternal life through His death and Life.
1 Peter 3:18

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I think we should focus on key Christian truths that help us all. God knows who is His. I think some key things are good for new believersā€¦
We all know you have to be born again, spiritually reborn, to enter the kingdom of heaven. Through an active relationship with Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, we are changed and we will become more like our Savior. Its important for believers to understand the need for that relationship and to let God, through the Holy Spirit, do a work in us. To be obedient to His calling. And, to understand what grace is and what it is not. This is a journey. There is such a perversion of His grace today and so its important to understand what His grace is. Dr Robert Jeffress did a great series on that on Pathway to Victory. The cost of following Jesus is great (I love Bonhofferā€™s example!) . We will all make mistakes, and by the blood of Jesus we are forgiven. When we are truly born again, and following Him we are a new creation in Christ. As James says, our faith needs to be active and it will bear fruit- that is the proof of our salvation. He will work on us bit by bit , purifying us as we go.
Might we have times where our walk with the Lord is not what it should be ? yes, and I think we can all attest to Godā€™s grace and mercy in our lives to bring us back.

Here are my notes from Pastor Jeffress re: good grace vs bad grace (his words, not mine):

  1. Need to understand sin. Satan makes sin better than it is and obedience worse than it is. Thinking its ok to keep sinning is wrong.
  2. understanding repentance; Christians need regular repentance/changing your mind.
  3. There is a different understanding of obedience between those who understand grace and those who donā€™t understand grace. We are saved by grace alone and not adding works. But we have given the impression works are optional. The NT consistently says our obedience to God verifies our salvation. You never have faith without obedience. I canā€™t divorce obedience from faith and obeying and trust.
  4. grace impacts rewards. We wonā€™t all be treated the same in heaven.
    And, If we are obedient, prayers will be most likely answered the Bible says.The eyes of the Lord on the righteous and He rewards those who seek diligently after Him.
    His next sermon was about obedience is evidence of faith. Its not cheap grace. (I didnā€™t have more notes on that).

I appreciated these sermons because this matched with what the NT says -obedience is the evidence of faith. We want to share Godā€™s grace and mercy with someone who doesnā€™t know the Lord. But once saved, hopefully the born again son or daughter of God is getting discipled and reading the Word fully not being deceived by ā€œbeliefismā€ (in name only belief) or lies from unbiblical churches for example. Phillipians 1:6 " in being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus".
I am confident that the Lord knows who His is and that He works all things out for the good of those who love Him, those called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28).
Let us exhort one another to good works, to do His kingdom work, for the glory of the Father!

I need to get out there this week and get back to kingdom work! I just had a sister tell me she met with someone who was a Catholic believer and the sister shared with her the good news, the new life in Christ and this lady accepted the Gospel and salvation in Christ alone! Praise the Lord!!! Let us rejoice in Him and this good news and that we have a new sister added to the kingdom today!

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Copied from www.GotQuestions.org
This says it better than I could.
Hebrews 10:26-27
warns against the sin of apostasy. Apostasy is an intentional falling away or defection. Apostates are those who move toward Christ, right up to the edge of saving belief, who hear and understand the Gospel, and are on the verge of saving faith, but then reject what they have learned and turn away. These are people who are perhaps even aware of their sin and even make a profession of faith. But rather than going on to spiritual maturity, their interest in Christ begins to diminish, the things of the world have more attraction to them rather than less, and eventually they lose all desire for the things of God and they turn away.

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I will stay away from the waves this understanding seems to make even if yes we know why.

I just always thought it was obvious if you were in for real it was a done deal.
I automatically understood this as a child and now today its more real and obvious the true as it started.

If someone is left behind I am pretty sure they will know why and will be the 1st own their knees in shame and repentance at least that is my hope and prayer.

Shalom

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I will say this I was saved and then walked away for a time like the prodigal son just as bad as he. Yet, then I too came to myself after many years and turned back to who I once loved.

But this time ready to stand in the light and out of the darkness that I had fallen into.

Why well unfortunately I had to find out the really hard way not to play near the fire and just what a great and terrible thing Yeshua saved me from. I know from experience from both sides now the road less traveled is the pure road paved in graceā€¦

I really did not understand and certainly did not appreciate but I did always believe. What an unhappy sinner was I like most only I knew the way back homeā€¦

That was my road others have their own.

Shalom

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I donā€™t usually use that termā€¦i kept having to copy and pasteā€¦donā€™t really know how to spell that. I have heard of it as posted above. It is interesting history. Did you get it from me before? It wasnā€™t something Iā€™ve posted recently that I recall. But the idea is that Qanon is a modern day version of that (a conspiracy to round up people to defeat by the opposing party). I was thinking you might see the conservatives and liberals (or leftists) in cahoots like an Hegelian Dialectic approach? Well that is what it would be if Trump comes into the game somehow and the Luciferian light regime overpowers the globalists. That I donā€™t see as the game theory at play at all. So I was thinking we differ there if not mistaken.

I am not saying you sit around wtching CNNā€¦lol. Ok here is the breakdown:

If Q is a psyop to get conservatives (sucker punch us) like through the party and through the Christian faith, by pretending to be on our side while corralling us, then that is like what the Bolsheviks did and would mean that CNN pretend to be against Q.

If Trump emerges politically in the near term and we start amplifying the Luciferian light theory (that conservatives will conquer the globalists only to become the new enlightened organic light of a Luciferian movement to bring on the beast system) then CNN would be just playing a game that they are against Q when in reality they sponsor Q. This is the current theory behind the Luciferian Light agenda should it go in that direction. This is a theory I donā€™t see as reasonable per game theory. And of course it could be this way, no one knows. But i donā€™t think that would be a way I see the current game theory working at all. I think these are our differences, no? I understand the missing equation here is a Trump in any sense of power to have concern over currently. But this theory has been out there for a while nowā€¦I think like over 6 months?

We have a disconnect here. Yes, admittedly my Rev 6:2 theory can involve Trump as one significant potential theory. I am not hiding thatā€¦lol. But when I am discussing things related to Qanon and January 6th and mentions of Luciferian Light theory, I did not form those views. The views that Qanon is a new age movement and that Trump is Luciferian light. Those are views that have been shared by some that have come out of Qanon as well as On Point Preparedness (on YT) and in some measure Pastor JDā€™s concern with Qanon. I am just saying this: My take on Rev 6:2 obviously may not be correct. But even if it is not correct, to me, it does not make Trump Luciferian light, nor necessarily even Q. Q could be just some dominionist who has intel and is gaming people and has caused a stir in the church. We just donā€™t know at this point.

But my main reason for saying that Gigi is not aimed at what spiritual leaders believe. On Point Preparedness actually has some really awesome points and I have a fondness for Mike over there at his channel. And Pastor JDā€™s update on Qanon was very helpful to understand the concerns of a pastor and the effects that sort of rhetoric from Q can cause in the church. It is also informative in how there does seem to be legitimate connects to the new age in the E511 video Pastor JD referenced as a good source for more. And it is a great source. And like I said, it makes sense for spiritual leaders to have a concern to protect the flock, amen. But some who might come out of Qanon or perhaps some who were into Trump worship and feel disillusioned, or those who might feel that having patriotic hope for America could see insight into Trump as Luciferian light or that Q might actually be a psyop to entrap conservatives and believers. So, I am not doing any of that. I am merely bringing up a different vantage point in response to what has formed out of this whole Qanon movment thingy. If that makes sense?

I understand that. Free Masonry is associated with all forms of occult going back to this origin. I donā€™t have any issue that it is an ancient desire of the AC spirit. What I am saying is that extrapolating it onto Trump and Qanon ā€œmayā€ be accurate or it may be eisegesisā€¦loading that ancient understanding in scripture and assigning it to Trump. Who did God tell that Trump is Luciferian Light to in the bible? Or what prophet is alive today that can absolutely affirm God said to them that Trump is Luciferian Light? Yet we treat this scenery as thought that was all a given. I donā€™t see it. I realize the concern. I thought Trump was AC in 2017. And just because I donā€™t hold that view anymore, I am not expecting the world to get inline with my thinking. I am just pointing out that assigning Luciferian Light ā€œmayā€ be accurate or it may be extra biblical. Should this not be an obvious thing to see and say?

The way you phrase that assumes that Trump is Luciferian Light because of NAR? I donā€™t let what other groups think inform how I think upon others. Sure it is a concern that Trump is connected to heretics. Sure it is concerning that Q espouses rhetoric that is dominionsim (which by the way was the Christian way for 1,000 yearsā€¦some seem to be a little slower in coming out of Popish history that dominated Christianity for centuries). By that I am not endorsing or making excusesā€¦but by the same logic it could have been true about any number of popes over the centuries. My take is that we can tend to take a bit too much overly gracious license with our own applications towards that.

Can Trump be a patriot, not saved, associated with a bunch of heretics, backed by some dominionist psyop guy and not be Luciferian Light and just simply good for the country? Yeahā€¦i think so. The price to have freedom of religion and minimize tyranny. Would there be a way you might see Trump possibly in that light at all for consideration?

Trump may have a reasonable shot back into office pending how things go with Arizona. And if not, I still think it is a good thing that the country fight for exposing voter fraud and retain national sovereignty regardless who is in officeā€¦because that is the normal right thing to do. Our view upon the Lord should not place in our hearts any disfavor in that direction. I understand these statement may not seem kosher coming out of NARā€¦but omitting NAR and Qanon, it would be good for this country to not go socialist and globalist. It is understandable why the opinions are as they may be. But i think this message is important. We may be here for years you know? It would be responsible to have a country that can provide less tyranny than more tyranny. If it is globalismā€¦well there is nothing wrong with a hot desire to slow their role. And if Trump is ableā€¦may Godā€™s grace shine upon this country then. And that is the right thing to say, I believe.

First of all before I go on. I must say, dear sister, it is so very precious to read your comments (as I have just read them to the end). How you look upon scripture, how your heart yearns for Him, how there is such a lovely innocents in your being. I would almost say by that alone dear one, you have me convinced. I am very blessed to know you. And I kind of have a knot in my throat reading you lovely thoughts. I truly almost want to so, ā€œOkay, itā€™s all good, you win, your right,ā€ just on what of His spirit I see in you lovely heart Gigi. If that were what this was about, Iā€™d surrender :slight_smile: But look, I donā€™t bring these things up to stir things here. I admit it can be fun to wrestle a bit. But what I am sensing is that there will likely be a forming consensus around what you have shared here in this forum. Far be it from me to walk around here like a bull in a china shop with my differences. That is not my desire at all. And your child like love for Pastor JD and his ministry has me not really care so much what my points are actually anymoreā€¦lol. It is such a deep sentiment of our Lord. Makes me want to give you a huge hug and not let go for quite a while. Having said that though i donā€™t think we might come close to seeing eye to eye at least in where we have are differences and where each of us are coming from. But I will share what I can in respect to my concerns.

Ok lovely ladyā€¦before I address thisā€¦remember what you stated earlier:

The only thing Iā€™d be saying if there were not the things in play you mention in the comment starting: ā€œWhen we teach that the comingā€¦ā€ is, ā€œI think Trump might be Rev 6:2.ā€ And then what that might mean. I wouldnā€™t be getting into any of this awakening stuff or Luciferian Light or any of that. As a believer, i know we can be deceived but Iā€™m not going to believe mankind is waking up to their 2.0 version. If that occurred the only thing I would be thinking is ā€œWowā€¦God you have to be really really really close to coming now. Iā€™d better let these people know.ā€ Thatā€™s all that would do to me. But I realize I am not most people. And we can all be deceived in differing areas. I know you would say here that I am the one making a big deal about the rhetoric whereas you are going by the word. And you are sold on it going this way. Which, as I mentioned above is rather endearing. Almost makes me want to just drop everything I would want to say because I see what your heart honestly sees. But even so Gigi, look it might go down that way, or it might go down a different way. I see your conclusion to be suspect of eisegesis if it goes down differently. And that would be extra biblical or in addition to what scripture may be saying. That is my only or main point.

For example as stated before I understand 2 Thes 2:11 & Matt 24:24 showing us that that time is in the second half of the tribulation. For that is where it places it in the very flow of Godā€™s sentences and sentencing. Both of those are second half in the very context and language God Himself uses. And I understand how I have a lot of twitches to still work out from Calvinism (and I just watched a video from Andy Woods today in relation to election and this man has help me hugely in areasā€¦but because of emergency study mode I can tell I have a bit firmer grasp on certain passageā€“purely out of desperationā€¦but it changes not an ounce of my respect for him in all the areas he has helped me in), and how having been so involved with the discernment ministries has messed me up quite a bit (yet also gratefully showed me some really significant character defects I also have to work on). Gigi, by believing this way I can understand why my views would be understood as alien. I might be wrong about Rev 6:2 and there might be way more deception than revelationā€¦but is there a universe where you might be mistaking those verses, 2 Thes 2:11 and Matt 24:24, as starting in the beginning? Is there? Because in biblical interpretation THE biggest overarching rule is context context context. There is a 0 chance the tribulation starts out with 2 Thes 2:11 and Matt 24:24. I am not saying that because I miss my Trumpā€¦lol. I am saying that because of the most honorable NON irregular hermeneutic there is ā€œhands down,ā€ context. And those two verses are surrounded with it. :slight_smile:

My view on the great awakening as I have shared at length (where you believe i misuse the term) is that it certainly has a likelihood of occurring as your concern sees it. But if the church sees that, i donā€™t think that is a time to go around warning everyone not to be tricked by that. I would hope the church would be mature enough to know ā€œOh, wow, its happening, time to get to work.ā€ And out of a heart of compassion and understanding (not a heart out of feeling we understand prophecy better) try and help those people see the love of Christ in our hearts and hear the gospel and sense the joy and thrill we have being such a part of that age God chose us to share inā€¦so much so the glory of the Lord in our hearts brightly over shines their worry or their arrogance or their deception. I donā€™t think it would be a time for the church to go around finger waging at how wrong they areā€¦lol. I know you are not saying thatā€¦but this is the picture that comes to my mind when i feel the church might be in danger of overselling our own sense of prophecy value. The one thing we would agree on is that time will then be extremely short. Not a time to be diagnosing events. A time to know second nature what to do for then the levyā€™s about to break.

I think in that sense more would turn to Him. But I donā€™t think that is the sole reason. Knowing God is compassionate (which is by the way how He Himself describes holy) is the hopeful and totally within His character, reason. But I see it more like Godā€™s majesty on display. Like ā€œAt the end of this is a 1,000 year reignā€¦Iā€™m the One who is its kingā€¦here is a taste of the kingdom to come.ā€ So it is more like when a king comes into town he sends his scouts ahead preparing the way. When it is peaceful, historically a king will ride in on a donkey. When it is not, a horse. So he sends in a horseā€¦lol. Declaring war. In majesty. If you will. The church had seen Rev 6:2 as good for 1500 years. None see what I do, but they did see it as non ominous. My research on this goes way beyond Q and Trump. And history says our seeing the AC = 21st century paranoia. But I would not go as far. You could be right it is the AC. But I lean toward it not because it poetically lines up with Rev 12:5 also non-ominous (the only of the three as Rev 6:2 is the only of the 21ā€“even though irregular, I have seen no argument well enough to counter). The only argument coming close and is somewhat of a contender is the 7 year agreement with Israel. That is pretty solid. But not to the point it can undo the Rev 6:2, Rev 12:5 mirror non-ominous poetry, nor the character of God revealed in Jesus Christ likely disclosed within them. Like I said, we are not going to come to terms here. But of the two I would have a genuine sense of concern that the one who cannot see both possibilities is likely the one who leans towards extra biblical insight. I can see yours and concur. And as wondrously moving within the depths of your heart His spirit doth beautify your entire being, to not see an alternative to yours, to me, lines up with more eisegetical danger. By which I am not saying you are wrong. Iā€™m just saying.

Romans 5:20 The law came in so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

Iā€™d say that is an age of grace principle and an age of grace finale potential.

Iā€™m not saying embrace it. I am saying the believer through His majestic spirit will have a lot of work to do quickly, and perhaps to understand it in its context, context, contextā€¦perhaps :slight_smile: Blessings.

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