May 16 2021: Bible Prophecy Update

All I know on this is Yeshua was not raptured by any definition of the word. He ascended slowly showering blessing on the believers below.

On the other hand we are yanked out of here like an eagle coming down and grabbing his prey right out of the hands of another!


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I am thinking of Matthew 17, the account of the transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah appeared suddenly and disappeared in a flash. We will be changed into our immortal bodies instantaneously and poof! Physical laws no longer apply.

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Amen, I just have to keep in mind its when you think not and I think it’s tomorrow everyday so then it may be today:-)

Just an observation, not meant to anyone in particular or for an argument or admonishment :blush: Just something that came to me. :woman_shrugging:t3:

The Tribulation is not meant for the Church. Period.
Other than to share the seriousness of and the end result to Lost people, no where does God say we are to obsess about it. Read it and pray about those who will suffer, yes, we are to know that which we pray about.
He tells us to watch, to wait, pray, to share the Gospel and warn others and occupy until He comes.

Why is so much space and thought given to deciphering the Tribulation period by born again believers? We won’t be here. We will have done all we can to turn others to Christ, but we won’t be here to see the result from a human standpoint.

While I pray for Israel, I mostly thank God for the privilege of seeing the prophecies unfold and because of this I know what happens and am awed by it.
While I pray for lost family, friends and people across the globe, unless they get saved before the Rapture, we won’t know that either.
I realize everyone has their own idea of what Gods word says about the 7 year period and that knowledge is what is used if shared with lost folks but unless you plan to be here I don’t understand the obsession or maybe I should say the polite arguing or debating (only word I could think of) for it. :woman_shrugging:t3:

Anyhoo, just an observation. Carry on :wink:


I still stick with the war in heaven at the start of trib. that’s why we have a man AC instead of Satan until the mid. and he loses the battle and is cast down toward the mid. We have no idea how long the war lasts, at least I don’t think we do.

So are you saying you are not pre-trib rapture of the body of Christ?


Hi Teren

I have always thought the church is raptured before the first seal. If the church is not in Heaven before the first seal, then who do you believe the 24 elders represent?

You’ve mentioned numerous times thinking the white horseman might be non-ominous, hence not the antichrist as most believe. I had a thought about that, probably a lame one, but I’ll share anyway.

One meaning of a bow in scripture is doctrine and then the arrows/darts carry the truth but this bow has no arrows. And I read in Jer. 9:3 of a bow as a tongue shooting lies and thought wow, that could make sense because if there are no arrows to shoot then the white horseman’s bow would need to be used to shoot something else. Lies!

The other horsemen represent war and famine and death, so maybe the white horse isn’t an actual person, but represents deception.

Says a crown was given to him, not that he wore one or deserved one. So the crown could represent an attempt to control the world through deception. Or, and I know this is a stretch, could refer to a particular ongoing deception–corona means crown and whether it was created as part of a plan or seized upon as an opportunity, it’s being used by NWO to attempt to conquer.

I say attempt because folks are catching on to the danger and lawsuits have been filed around the world, so there’s at least a small possibility the current deception won’t go as planned. But they’ll just move on to the next deception or false flag (aliens or war or who know what) because as JD said in a prior update, it’s gone too far already. And when the Rapture happens, a bigger deception will come to cover up what really happened.


Hi Violet, something else came to mind on this I wanted to share. I think in the situation with Renee, where the way she is looking at things might comport with Charles Bing I believe she is seeing accurately. But I don’t exactly think repenting of sin is a work necessarily. It can be. I believe that. But with every gracious fiber of respect toward your concern, and we can disagree, I believe there is a way to look at this that won’t exactly dismiss the import from the eminence of what Christ really meant by repent. For I do believe repentance chiefly is without question to believe on Him. To repent from a reality not recognizing God’s greatest offering…“His Son.” There are plenty of people that move from sinning to non-sinning ways in their life and some even go on to live moral lives and don’t know Christ. In the 1st century Israeli mind it is understandable why “they” may think of repentance from sin in an Old Testament manner that pales in comparison to having faith in the true and majestic Christ. But for gentiles, contrition may be a sense of dread over their condition in coming to Christ and be fitting as seen in the case of the tax collector and the Pharisee.

Having a broken spirit or a contrite heart or as the beatitudes say it, being poor in spirit, I believe is a part of a real, living, and vital relational dynamic with our dear Lord on an ongoing basis–because we are saved. To be of such heart in the process of sanctification or at the point of conversion, I honestly don’t think is actually the issue so much, as I understand it. I understand your concern. But if we believe and have repentance of sin, I don’t think Christ would look upon that as Christ + works. But I think in the case in Acts where Peter was used for the Jews to be pierced to the heart over killing Christ, it was well fitting that their repenting of that sin along with their recognizing Christ as messiah be simultaneous. I don’t see they needed to be told to repent from sin first. I see that because of their proximity to the death of Christ, in order to believe upon this One, they would have to know that He died for the sins because of and through the Jews. That was very important for them to understand. So for them to be told, don’t repent of sins to be saved would be no form of a work at all. It would be their normal heart cry to a situation utterly requiring it. If that makes sense? In my case, I just asked God to reveal Himself and was it true that He wanted the throne of my heart where I was on the throne of my heart? I just prayed and ask if God was real like that, to reveal Himself to me. I prayed that because I was interest to know and if there was a better life than the life of drugs. But I could have stayed like that for ever really. It’s all i knew. I was just thinking that if God is one out there having a different or better way, I’d ask Him. And the next day I woke up a believer.

I understand the concern over a Ray Comfort type ministry that uses the 10 commandments to help people see their need of Christ. In that respect I have no issue, in the sense that most people are not aware of their sin. But here is where we might differ a bit Violet. I would say that for Ray Comfort then to say you need to come to Christ for the remission of sins that you are aware of and forsake them as not altogether wrong. It could be. But I don’t think in a blanket way it is wrong. Here’s why: When witnessing to people that don’t know much or anything about Christ, it helps people understand that this is the Christ that gives remission to sins. And that this is the Christ to offer new life. And that this life is desired by Him to not have sin in it (in general). And in that respect it would be good for them to know a more profound context surrounding this Christ. As apposed to “just try Jesus.” I believe for context what Ray Comfort does is fine. Where the confusion and danger is is in blending repentance from sin as = to the import John the Baptist and Jesus have (IMHO) and would place on it. “Believe.” Since I stuck my neck out to stick out in small measure toward Ray Comfort I will also stick my neck out in opposition to that as well, where certainly warranted. For the danger I believe is where we might exult repenting from sin as though it were in the same universe as of repenting from unbelief. To mistake those two as the same, to me, is to make the mistake of calling the mountain of Zion, the mountain of Sinai (Gal 4:24-31). God will not share his glory. And there enlies the problem and danger I would whole heartedly agree with you concerning.

. . . . .

In concerns of the the Spirit’s ministry…certainly we are told out rightly that He affirms our adopted status to His saints.

But drawing too great a line between how the Spirit may help us see our sin or be used to move us into growth beyond fleshy ways of thinking, even though it is not as overtly stated as His affirming our adoption status, the spirit will draw and convict…but not condemn. Even in the case of Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5) the Spirit through Peter gave them a chance to repent. Albeit an issue of interpretation as to whether or not those two were actually real saints can be debated. But they were met with a similar judgement described in 1 Cor 11:32 “But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.”

There can certainly be a lot of judgmental people in the church. And I think Renee feels that that is the devil accusing her. To me, that could just be judgy and critical people. Or it could be God granting her opportunity to take a look at herself and consider her ways. To dismiss it as black and white accusations i don’t think is a healthy outlook nor the best way to look at scripture. Surely there are times when people and harsh and critical towards us and they are wrong in doing so. Yet at the same time, what was pointed out regardless may have well been something we needed to hear too

I just wanted to make that clarification, because it is an area all of us in varying places in our sanctification will be struggle with understanding at times how to look upon a matter addressing us. And IMHO it is never always this or that…but quite often a blend even. I hope this finds its way in grace. Blessings dear sister.


I like this :slight_smile:

Here are some commentaries on Rev 2:27. They associated the church with this verse and rule. Many commentaries do not. But in the scholarly world…it is up for debate. :slight_smile:

Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron,… Either with the Gospel, which is the rod of Christ’s strength, and is the power of God unto salvation, and by which the kingdom of Christ is enlarged, and the power of the church of Christ over the antichristian party is increased; or it may design great strictness and severity, with which the man of sin will be used by the saints of the most High, when they shall take away his dominion from him:

as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers; which may be expressive either of the breaking of rocky hearts in pieces at conversion, and of making souls humble and contrite; or of the irreparable ruin and destruction of antichrist, when the saints shall consume and destroy him:

even as I received of my Father; Christ, as God, has an underived power and government; but, as Mediator, his rule and power over the nations are asked by him, given to him, and received by him, Psalm 2:8. This “as” does not intend equality, but similitude; and denotes the participation the saints will have with Christ in the judgment and destruction of antichrist, and in his kingdom and power.

. . . . .

Matthew Poole’s Commentary

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron: an iron rod either signifies a right rod, that will not be easily bent and made crooked; or a severe rod, which is most probably the sense: see Psalm 2:9 Psalm 12:5. The words by the psalmist are applied to Christ, and to the church, Revelation 12:5: to particular saints here, who rule the nations either in Christ their Head, or with Christ as their Chieftain, with the word of God powerfully convincing the world of sin and righteousness.

As the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers; and all paganism and heathen idolatries shall be broken in pieces. Or, in the day of judgment, the saints that persevere shall sit with Christ, and judge and condemn the world severely; and then they shall be broken in pieces, never again to be sodered or cemented.

Even as I received of my Father; for such a power and authority my Father hath given me, and I will give it to all them.

. . . . .

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

  1. From Ps 2:8, 9.

rule—literally, “rule as a shepherd.” In Ps 2:9 it is, “Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron.” The Septuagint, pointing the Hebrew word differently, read as Revelation here. The English Version of Ps 2:9 is doubtless right, as the parallel word, “dash in pieces,” proves. But the Spirit in this case sanctions the additional thought as true, that the Lord shall mingle mercy to some, with judgment on others; beginning by destroying His Antichristian foes, He shall reign in love over the rest. “Christ shall rule them with a scepter of iron, to make them capable of being ruled with a scepter of gold; severity first, that grace may come after” (Trench, who thinks we ought to translate “SCEPTER” for “rod,” as in Heb 1:8). “Shepherd” is used in Jer 6:3, of hostile rulers; so also in Zec 11:16. As severity here is the primary thought, “rule as a shepherd” seems to me to be used thus: He who would have shepherded them with a pastoral rod, shall, because of their hardened unbelief, shepherd them with a rod of iron.

shall they be broken—So one oldest manuscript, Vulgate, Syriac, and Coptic Versions read. But two oldest manuscripts, read, “as the vessels of a potter are broken to shivers.” A potter’s vessel dashed to pieces, because of its failing to answer the design of the maker, is the image to depict God’s sovereign power to give reprobates to destruction, not by caprice, but in the exercise of His righteous judgment. The saints shall be in Christ’s victorious “armies” when He shall inflict the last decisive blow, and afterwards shall reign with Him. Having by faith “overcome the world,” they shall also rule the world.

even as I—“as I also have received of (from) My Father,” namely, in Ps 2:7-9. Jesus had refused to receive the kingdom without the cross at Satan’s hands; He would receive it from none but the Father, who had appointed the cross as the path to the crown. As the Father has given the authority to Me over the heathen and uttermost parts of the earth, so I impart a share of it to My victorious disciple.
. . . . .

Barnes’ Notes on the Bible

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron - There is an allusion here to Psalm 2:9; “Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.” There is a slight change in the passage, “he shall rule,” instead of “thou shalt break,” in order to adapt the language to the purpose of the speaker here. The allusion in the Psalm is to the Messiah as reigning triumphant over the nations, or subduing them under him; and the idea here, as in the previous verse, is, that his redeemed people will be associated with him in this dominion. To rule with a scepter of iron, is not to rule with a harsh and tyrannical sway, but with power that is firm and invincible. It denotes a government of strength, or one that cannot be successfully opposed; one in which the subjects are effectually subdued.

Thanks, but I need to clarify I think. I was not the one that initially brought up Renee, that was another poster who I’d have to scroll way back to even find. Okay, found it. Looks like around posts #202 it seems you guys were talking about repent before I even got into it. That was @Ready2Fly22 so hopefully she will see this and read your reply.

I had agreed with a comment she wrote because I learned about Renee on this forum and listened to some of her vids on problem verses and liked them. Then someone else commented saying she was hyper-grace and comparing her to Joseph Prince (who I have never listened to) and listed all these marks of hyper-grace… so I commented that none of the stuff I had listened to from her fit that list. That’s all it was about Renee for me but I did post about repent from Andy Woods page.


Andy Woods has very sound teaching, and agrees with Pastor JDs teachings, esp about the rapture.
I enjoy his teaching style too, very calm and very clear and strait forward.


I tried to piece together what’s happened here and I’m not even sure at this point. I also don’t understand how to reply to two people so if you could alert Teren of this post that would be great. These comments I’m making are definitely not towards you, just thinking out loud to the whole conversation last few days with everyone. All I know is I like Renee and agree with her teaching of the gospel and repent. I have never listened to Joseph Prince so not sure on him either. I hate the term “hyper-grace” and “easy believism” because to some they mean something different then they do to others. If one is saying “Hyper grace” is in play just because someone is not including their own works into contributing or maintaining their own salvation (such as stopping sinning, or turning from sin) that’s completely wrong to label them as such bc those things aren’t part of the gospel and it is all about Gods grace towards us. Ones failure to include something of their own effort into the gospel, is not “hyper” grace. It’s either works or it’s grace, it’s never a mixture of the two. It’s literally one the other. (And only one saves).

Now I can see easy believism possibly meaning just believing Jesus existed, but not truly understanding what he accomplished on the cross. Just having more of a historical understanding and belief in Jesus as a man to me would not be having saving faith. So if this is what one means by the label “easy believism”, I agree. However, if one is using that label for someone just bc they are believing we are sinners in need of a savior and trusting in what Christ did for us, APART from any works, then this use is wrong. If they are saying it’s “too easy” because I’m not “working” in some way to obtain it, they are just preaching a false gospel. To me compared to having to fulfill the whole of the law (which of course is impossible and only Christ has done), it is easy. So I really don’t like the term.

See my back ground was for many, many years only believing Jesus existed and thinking that was “believing” in Jesus. However for years I didn’t grasp the weight of my sin or what Jesus did for me on the cross- but I thought I was saved. (That was Easy believism- maybe?). I saw Jesus more as a genie in a bottle who could help me obtain things in earth. Which of course was wrong but I see this more as a prosperity gospel that is prevalent in word of faith, NAR etc.

Then I started listening to Paul Washer, Ray Comfort, and an exhaustive list of preachers saying you must repent “of your sins”, and “turn from your sin” to be saved. I certainly understood this at the time as “stop sinning”. So I tried, VERY hard. I wrote down every sin I could ever remember committing and asking the Lord to forgive me, I saw this as my “clean slate”. then I tried my best to never sin again. But the more I tried not to sin, the more I did. (Now I understand that’s because the law gives power to sin). It became evident to me, I couldn’t do it. And I became depressed and convinced I was going to hell. This is when I reached rock bottom and prayed for the Lord to help me understand, because if I had to stop sinning to go to heaven I couldn’t see how anyone was getting into heaven including me. That’s when the Holy Spirit showed me in scripture (in Timothy) that the purpose of the law was to show the NEED for Jesus! Right then for me it clicked! I right then understood what Jesus did for me and believed in the gospel for my salvation. I believed he died, was buried, and rose again on the third day for remission of my sin. And this to me is true repentance- realizing you CANT get to heaven any other way except by Christ and what HE did. That’s why he is the way, the truth, and the life. That’s also why the way is narrow and few find it, because it’s ONLY him. Not because it’s “hard” or takes effort in our flesh to achieve. I finally had changed my mind from any other means of salvation except him. And that’s when I found salvation and forgiveness. When I humbled myself and trusted in him as savior, he showed me grace. I’m honestly shocked when people say they turned from their sin as part of their salvation. I think to myself they must be completely dishonest with themselves if they don’t think they still sin. I mean we might be able to improve or stop some sins, but I know I fall very short of perfection and I am no where even close to following the law perfectly, nor could I ever. And I just refuse for my effort into trying to not sin become part of the gospel, bc it’s not.

The crazy thing is a false gospel preached by many (especially Paul Washer and Ray Comfort), actually did start me on my journey to true salvation. I had to get serious about salvation and the preaching about sin, the law, and going to hell for my sin really shook me. To put it frank, they sacred the heck out of me! But if that false gospel had ended there in my mind and I somehow actually thought I was achieving my own righteousness, then I would still be lost and on my way to hell. Me realizing I couldn’t meet the mark and then the Holy Spirit leading me to understand the rest of the gospel, (leading me to the resolution to my sin problem, my savior Jesus) is how I finally reached salvation. I think many start the way I did but haven’t completed the journey into true faith. They are stuck at one if two junctures- either the trying to earn it themselves stage or at the “well I believe Jesus is real so I’m saved” stage. Only the Holy Spirit can help someone complete that journey in my opinion and only those that can see they are sinners through and through and can’t follow the law, are ever going to reach true salvation. Otherwise they are stuck in works of the flesh thinking they are achieving something they never really are and are just as guilty as the Pharisee, they haven’t trusted in Jesus as their SAVIOR.

Again, not that this is directed at you or Teren really, I just wanted to further explain bc I believe someone out there needs to read this. :blush:

This article really explains what I’m saying beautifully and highlights the proper use of the law and highlights both heresies I was once caught up in… worth a read


This morning the same thing came to mind during my prayer time. Are we spending to much time on the subject and timing?

But what came to me was we are placing and the guide posts all over the earth. Why becuase when we leave earth discerning people will remember what we said and what we believed.

I do believe we are to refocus and draw closer to what we should be shining light on. Prophecy is needed to be shared more than ever but also encouragement and hope in these last days. Maybe pointing to the promised return and where we are going should be increased.

We have seen many preachers and teachers over the last month start pointing to heaven when all the shaking is happening on the earth.

Just sensing something like a new season and message coming forth as we move forward into the next time of birth pangs.



Took me 50 hard years to learn that lesson, started SDA , then salvation proven by your works, all the while carrying UN-diagnnosed combat PTSD from Vietnam ( how do you think that went)
Thank His Holy Name, HE carried me , unbeknownst while fellow believers, told be you really didn’t accept Jesus. Which lead to a serious suicide attempt.
" Only the Holy Spirit can help someone complete that journey in my opinion and only those that can see they are sinners through and through and can’t follow the law, are ever going to reach true salvation. Otherwise they are stuck in works of the flesh thinking they are achieving something they never really are and are just as guilty as the Pharisee, they haven’t trusted in Jesus as their SAVIOR."
Thank you again for your experience, strength and hope, and not just quotes from books, but sharing self.
Peace Doc


A man’s experience, showing the way, THE TRUE GOSPEL


Thank you for your kind words, I’m so thankful you were able to find the narrow way as well - it breaks my heart when I explain all this and many come against me and just want to argue, because I know they aren’t there yet and knowing how amazing and life changing it was for me to find the truth was, I just pray everyone can see the truth but I know that won’t happen. I often think if the rejection of the gospel breaks my heart, I can’t imagine how it breaks Gods heart. As believers all we can do is keep trying out of love and keeping praying for others salvation. Can’t wait to meet you in the clouds!


You witness prompted me write. I have given up the fight, it is up to God. You are proclaiming the true gospel, and just saying that will cause me to be stoned ( with bible verses , in love). I am almost 80, and am tired. So many times along the way, I arrived at points of truth, that I would die for. Only to find, it was not THE truth later. Usually through life experiences. So everyone is on their journey, many will reject your seeds of the Grace gospel, only to accept later down the line.
Scream it from the housetops dear brother/sister.

Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you , because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry , and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

Warmly Doc


I keep feeling like I am in the middle of something I did not start and am not disagreeing with :slight_smile:
I completely agree that its ONLY HIM. Should I share my own testimony as well? At this point I’m not sure if that would help or further confuse things.

But anyway I posted this before and think maybe it was missed? This if from Andy Woods web page of his church and the link is below.

REPENTANCE – The New Testament word for repent (metanoao) means to “change one’s mind.” It does not mean to “turn from sin”, a current day definition. We believe that salvation is based upon the one condition of faith of which repentance is a vital part. In the New Testament when a person heard the gospel and agreed with it, he was changing his mind, thus in the process of repenting. He was going from doubt, confusion, or unbelief to belief in Christ as Savior. It is in this way that repentance is related to salvation. It should be made clear that it is possible for a person to understand the gospel and yet refuse to accept Christ as Savior. However, one cannot truly believe in Christ without having first repented. Additionally, turning from sinful acts may and should result from repentance and faith in Christ, but is neither a requirement for nor a part of salvation. In the same way, a sorrow for sin is neither a requirement for nor a part of salvation. Were this the case, then our salvation would rest, at least in part, on our own works and merit, something that is quite foreign to the Scriptures.


This has been a sad encounter for me.

I am so saddened and grieved that a person like Renee Roland, an unwed mother, Hollywood movie producer who is a metalhead groupie of Metadeth (who sings of Baphomet) who drinks,and smokes as she said because she likes to, with no training or accountibility can amass a subscription of 10,000 subscription youtube loyal followers thus providing her with money and gifts.

I continue to shout, “we are saved by grace alone”.

This is not about adding repentance to grace to be saved.
This is about taking and weaving a distortion so subtily and skillfully with scriptures so as
to lead followers into living a life free of conviction over any sin they wish to embrace.

We read the sriptural warnings about false teachers teaching doctrines of devils but we always think we can spot them. When in fact, they are annointed by Satan to seduce,
bewitch, beguile and deceive and are capable of “fooling the very elect if that were possible”.

It is the false teachers that bring division and sow discord.

I am grateful for the passion here for Grace Alone without works as that is my passion also.



And sometimes those seeds stay in the ground for years dormant, until the right conditions for germination.

The old shell has to die for the new plant to be born. Praise God for the strength to hold on for the Dawn!


I was personally responding to @Ready2Fly22 my agreement with his story, and my agreement with his take on gospel. If anyone read this as attacking something they said, you are mistaken, if I don’t agree with people, I move on (I don’t argue) BUT if I agree, I try and support them. That is all this was, please don’t personalize, EXCEPT@Ready2Fly22
Blessings Doc

Moving on :footprints: