I’d give you a “like” for this comment, but I can’t like what is happening. I’d rather tell you I appreciate that you wrote the truth about what is happening. Thanks for that.
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Amen. On the upside here Bonnie, what is in the favored rendering you give is that most scholars agree with your position in some way or another. As we know, this can be a very good indicator of sober thinking or a very bad indicator of group think. I actually think there is probably some great measure of sober thinking. However, I lean more toward the “group think” perspective for reasons I will provide below…i hope they might be helpful…at least in consideration. Amen.
PLEASE CONSIDER: The following are some thoughts you have evoked in our discussion. And I thank you for them. For they have caused me to consider deeper upon this matter. In order to best keep my vein of thought with the integrity hoped for, please know that the following is of polemic nature. It is not meant to debate or frustrate or be of bad faith discussion. Please note that my takes on certain things have me thinking certain ways. I am hopeful to kindly and helpfully provide contrast here. I am trying to be helpful but sometimes my expressions may stray from being most helpful. In those cases…should they occur…please note that impact and effect are important here, I believe. And because of that I may fall stupor from where consideration should exceed polemic. I have been guilty of this. If this, or where this, might occur please feel free to correct me. I desire to serve and honor.
Before go on here, I would like to say that one main reason I suspect group think share a deeper stake in our heritage of theology is not because of robust and dashing nuances in tuxedos. But more simple stuff like noticing someone didn’t clean out the stable before inviting the neighbors over to the backyard barn hoedown. Like I don’t think the four animals in Daniel are the same as the mentioned kingdoms in the statue. To me, it is almost cheating to squeeze them into the statue. But we do have the statue and we do have those near kingdoms. But wow…where is the scholar that says Daniel did not tell us? How come that scholar does not exist? And it is exactly there as such in Daniel…where the barn is not exactly clean for to conduct neighborly comparison.
THE WORD OF GOD SO POETIC AND YET SO OH TOO SIMPLE SOMETIMES TOO (perhaps too much so for my own good…maybe)…
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Perhaps the kings can be those of Rome at the time. Because Nero was no more and thought perhaps to return. But the line up of Roman Emperors might make more sense than including Persia in the mix. So now we have Persia in the statue, Persia in the animals, and now Persia in the kings? lol. We could say that God might be a bit more imaginative. I am not mocking. I know you are standing on the shoulders of some very competent researchers (even throughout the ages). But what I wanted to start this off hopefully with is a little tickle.
Bottom line for me on that point: When did Persia persecute Israel? -
There are commentaries that mention the 7 hills/mountains of Rome and fix it must be so then. But the mountains are not mountains. They are kings. So finding Roman mountains was never the point. And do more to force a Romish issue when none likely existed there (at least not in literal mountains). And because such allegory can exist–even in interpretation–it is a sign ahead to call us to realize where thoughts may spill over onto the text a pint too much…perhaps. And in noticing that this sort of thing can occur…it helps us gauge where else spillovers might occur…or how spillage might take shape in other instances.
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If the 7 kings are kings and not kingdoms (for there are 10 kings that have no kingdom that come up very quickly also in Rev 17…and in that we notice that it is explicit that John & the Spirit surely made distinctions even within a few sentences or words). Kings are not mountains nor are they kingdoms. They are kings (according to the simplicity of the most holy and authoritative–beyond any scholar–word of God). Like a 3 year old painting of a stick man crossing a street. A king is a king is a king. We may not like the implications of how to solve other issues if a king is a king…but complicating images and the word of God in the most fearful book NOT to do that in (or so we are told by it)…yet it happens regularly like its part of some job description…and we all do it–is something to consider that happens that should not happen if it happens. I am just noting that it is just good to notice sometimes how we might do that sort of thing…however well intended. Context is king, and literal meanings of first principle, queen (or at least much of the time). We are to take things literally unless the text infers us otherwise. But when the text is interpreting for us…it is best not to go back into the weeds of allegory…or at least not very far back…is all.
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The timing of the king that is not: Rev 17:8
8 “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and [h]go to destruction.
Refers to…Rev 13:
And the dragon gave him his power and his throne, and great authority. 3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been [b]fatally wounded, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”.
So If these are kings and they are not stretched out to mean Roman emperors or many other nations…then it would be a king at that time that would be seen, go away, and come back as another king. If they are kings…and they are…then it is reasonable to consider that time wise there is 7th and then the next one soon after, the 8th. I ask you to juxtapose this next to the logic that denies that these are even persons. When the word clearly tells us in contrast they are kings (as apposed to kingdoms which are motioned a few words later that say there are kings without kingdoms…making that very distinction)…and that they are individual people without kingdoms. If we can make the error (and being human we make bazillions) mistaking kingdoms for kings when the differences are spelled out in extreme vicinity to our text, why might it be possibly harder to consider then short spans of time between two kings? Occam’s Razor. Or at least a really good candidate for the razor.
I hope dearest Bonnie this might find you intrigued hopefully a bit. I am more than willing to consider the traditional takes on these verses…but I think differently upon things and would need a little different tweak i guess here or there. I know…I am a hard case…lol. But i hope at least it was interesting reading to consider. Blessings 
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I’ve been thinking that the antichrist might very well come out of the New Age circles : he might come to ‘save’ the people from the vaccines and the WHO and the WEF and Soros and Schwab etc. And people will be so happy that they will fall at his feet and end up worshipping him
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I think this website has already been mentioned: https://academyofdk.com/ (it shows that many of the people who are against the vaccines, are New Agers)
Check out the ‘Meet our teachers’ part and also the ‘Free Library’ part , where you can download a very strange New Age Document about a book called ‘The Pyramid Code’ (here’s the link but I’m not sure if it works when I post it here: https://yl9wj1huk5pejen62zybt2w8-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/The-Pyramid-Code-English.pdf
Here’s one comment that is in the document:
’ I believe that the day will come when the “Son of God” (Fatasol) will manifest in a human body to show all mankind the way out of darkness and into the Light, from stress to consciousness. This entity will be the Messiah in my eyes.’
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It’s coming : mandatory vaccination in my country…mass genocide. Come Lord Jesus!
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I have many co-worker who have taken the jab, and I was praying about the proper response toward them, making sure to not shun them for fear of getting sick.
I felt the Holy Spirit impressed upon my heart, these people were your friends before taking the shot, remain true and faithful toward them.
Psalm 46:1-2 KJV
[1] God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
[2] Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
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I have felt like a denominational mutt, my whole life. It began when I was growing up and my parents changed churches for theological differences, a few times. Nothing was pure…
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I’m guessing most of us made a decision about the shots before hearing any of these physicians speak. Their scientific explanations only served to support something I had already determined.
I have noted when any one of them veers into new age speak and that I immediately recognize and reject, but that doesn’t change the science.
Yes, we must be discerning–and that includes looking at the source and what can be seen at that level, even on this forum.
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So, if we dissect this, what do we have? Controlled opposition. New Ager’s warning us about the vaccine.
Wow. So many good replies already, to your question.
Saves me a whole bunch of typing. as I agree with most
all of the responses, so now I can be more brief, with
just a few comments:
I believe Dr. Tenpenny is a Christian.
Dr. Madierj is definitely a new-ager.
(Have watched several of both of their videos.)
I believe they are both sincere in their vax warnings,
but that their warnings are strictly professional, and mutually
exclusive from any other agendas, spiritual or otherwise.
The video possibly has a photo-shopped image of
the people who are associated with the aforementioned
new age website (because I went to that actual website,
and could not find Tenpenny’s photo on it).
Even so, sometimes a speaker (like Tenpenny), may appear as a
guest speaker in a forum, but that may not necessarily mean
they endorse (United Nations) all of that forum’s agenda.
It may also be unwise for them to even associate with some forums,
but that’s a whole nuther’ issue.
It’s all about deception. Satan is behind New-Age, one world
government, murder by medical means, false prophecies
to get Christians arguing with each other, etc., etc.
Maranatha!
Meanwhile, be careful out there!
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I was the one that posted the video showing their link to new age, in post 138 on May 16th update… quoted below, this is my view on why they are doing it…
“Ok so I have something important to discuss. I’d say about 2019 sometime I became suddenly aware of the New Age movement infiltrating the Christian church. Especially churches like Bethel and Hillsong. Also became aware of New Apostolic Reformation. This is a huge problem in the church today. Focus is all on miracles, healing, prophecy from modern day apostles, extra biblical knowledge. NOT the gospel. Then I started noticing Trump connected to many of these churches. Even named Paula White his spiritual advisor which was shocking. I always felt like this all had end time implications and as I’ve said before I’ve often wondered if the real danger here isn’t so much the New World Order and the depopulation agenda (although I believe it’s real and is a threat) … but the biggest threat is the perceived “savior” from it. For example new world order, Bill Gates, covid lies, vaccine, etc all are the “black hats” and then comes along a saving movement that stands for medical freedom, freedom of speech, and unveils all the evil that has been occurring. We will call this group the “white hats”. And although just as evil as the black hats they appear good. They appear good because they unveil deception and lies, and in doing so they lead us right into biggest lie of all - that Jesus isn’t the Savior and that our “God consciousness” within ourselves is the real savior. I also believe alien disclosure will be part of this deception as well. Is it possible the antichrist comes out of this white hat group… not the black hat group like everyone thinks ??? Also Qanon often quoted new age theology as well… I think JD has hinted at this before… I noticed this guy Sasha Stone in a lot of the videos I watched about vaccine dangers, and although I think the vaccine danger is real… I believe them fighting against it could pull a lot of people into a much bigger deception down the road. We need to be on the look out!”
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Thank you so much for your response and also thank you for the chuckles I got. You have a unique and humorous way of expression, and I enjoyed that…even if I disagree with your premises. 
- When did Persia persecute Israel? Haman comes to mind. Babylon and Medo-Persia – Israel My Glory
See also the following for the significance of Medo-Persia Empire by Dr. John F. Walvoord:
- Identifying the 7 hills is the point (Babylon). Seven Hills of Rome | Italy | Britannica
Remember, the Apostle John was living under the Roman Empire which banished the Apostle to the Isle of Patmos. This is not allegory. More studying: A City on Seven Hills | thebereancall.org
3 & 4: Yes, context is always key in the interpretation of scripture, as well as a good working knowledge of history, historical settings, audience. Let me give you a couple of more links for study. I don’t know if you know who the late Dr. Harry A. Ironside was, but you can put his name in your browser in your browser if you don’t know of him.
Revelation 17 (2 parts). Note: The chapter numbers are somewhat off. These are lectures, not commentaries. For the entirety of Dr. Ironside’s lectures on the Book of Revelation, go to:
http://www.baptistbiblebelievers.com/NTStudies/LecturesonRevelationsHAIronside1920/tabid/325/Default.aspx
Revelation 17:
http://www.baptistbiblebelievers.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=a6HohNRezIM%3D&tabid=325&mid=1065
http://www.baptistbiblebelievers.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=fGE445DMuT0%3D&tabid=325&mid=1065
There is no allegory in the Book of Revelation. Every symbolic reference can be found elsewhere within the scriptures. “They [professors and pastors] are the ones that don’t understand it; they are not studying it, teaching false doctrine, and hindering others from studying that part of the Word of God.” https://www.raptureready.com/2019/12/22/book-revelation-not-allegory-daymond-duck/
I have studied prophesy for 42 years. Yes, I am a traditionalist and remain so even after too numerous to count readings from those who do not share the traditional, dispensational, view as I do. I’ve given you much to study if you so choose. Due to time constraints, if down the road you have more questions, I will do my very best to address your questions. And, I pray you are blessed as you dig deeper and deeper into the Word. Let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth. 
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beautiful uplifting vid at the end there.
praying for you. that article is so creepy. i think I keep forgetting how brainwashed most people are, because articles like that in my opinion make it obvious that we are being herded like people were at the beginning of the Holocaust. it’s obvious to me that this isn’t about health. I don’t see how people can deny it. the only explanation I can think of is that they are just that brainwashed. and I’m seeing how our friends and family are going to be pressured to pressure us to cave, before real force comes. I’m praying for your protection Dennis. may they fail to touch even one hair of your head. may He always give you an out in these crazy, insane situations. I hope you have friends and family nearby who are standing strong against the wake with you. whether you do or not, I’m praying He sends more to be with you.
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As I read this article, with death and injury statistics for pets, I couldn’t help but wonder if it will be censored as misinformation? Just 1700 deaths–of pets.
Thank you for responding in email 
keeps me from having to sort through the posts!
We do agree on some things, with a few differences here and there. However, ultimately all we need to know is that Jesus is King of Kings, Lord of Lords and He will call us home at the appointed time!!
What happens after that (tribulation events) is “extra” knowledge to me, so I can share with others what will happen when I’m gone and they aren’t.
Have a great weekend!
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Officials last month signed off on a ‘digital Covid certificate’ which can act as a vaccine passport. But this new ID wallet goes a step further, allowing users to store other files like driver’s licenses, professional qualifications …and financial details.
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I struggled with this, too; I still do sometimes. Most of the people I am close to who seem “brainwashed” are actually very intelligent and intuitive people who simply refuse to believe that the world as we know it is passing away. My spouse keeps saying that things will get back to normal eventually. He keeps making plans for the future, and I know the future is not here. I don’t want to be Eeyore with all his negative doom and gloom, so I don’t argue (much!) and pray these with blinders on hoping for a better tomorrow will see that the brightest future is mapped out for us in another realm. 
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exactly!!! VERY smart people, it’s hard to understand why they don’t see it. but you have proposed a very good alternative explanation, that many just refuse to see that this world is passing away. I love the way you are praying for them. thank you for your input <3 I’m glad your spouse has you to hold him close through this!!!
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Yes we do know that, Julie! Thanks for the video. Here is another interesting link. Macron Launches 10-Nation 'World Army', Fulfilling Biblical Prophecy
I do not believe Macron is the AC, but that the AC will be of Italian lineage, a Roman. BUT, I’m not set in concrete about it because I am not looking for the Son of Perdition but for the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. 
Many blessings to you and yours, Julie.
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Yes Emmanuel Macron… what a name… that fits the bill (the meaning) if he dosent… lol x