No the pre- trib rapture was taught by the early church fathers this doctrine can be traced back to the Apostle John and his disciple Polycarp (martyred), Irenaeus (Polycarp’s disciple) who also saw the Apostle John from time to time wrote a 5 volume work “Against Heresies”. The pre-trib rapture was clearly taught by those that had good doctrine.
One of my many favorites! We sang this at the end of our wedding ceremony. The memory just blessed my heart!
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Love this @SongSparrow / Brenda. Wonderful Jewish twang to the piano melody and then it breaks into the glorious French parlance!
The French language lessons I took recently with a friend have finally paid dividends; I understood so much*
*i.e. that at some point it was sung in French.
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Read Daniel 9: 27
I think the pope declared the 7 yr covenant w/ many in May, 2021 when he announced the 7 yr action plan for his laudato si encyclical. In Nov. @ COP26 UN conference, the nations affirmed the “action plan” & Prince Charles even referred to AC as “He” will need control of all the world’s resources. Unquestionably, Charles was referring to the coming leader of the NWO. NOWHERE do scriptures declare covenant to be a peace agreement. The 7 yrs nature of the pope’s action plan is POIGNANT.
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Thanks for the clarification, Kenny. I believe the language in Rev 11 is what has you believing that the two witnesses are raptured? Rev 11:17-18:
“We give You thanks, Lord God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign. 18 And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to [l]reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the [m]saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”
I believe the two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah since neither of them died. But only God knows. Some think that the church is the 2 witnesses (gentile/Jewish) and that 2 is symbolic…but that there are millions. Which would mean that believers get supernatural powers during the first half of the tribulation. And rapture at the middle. Would you consider Enoch and Elijah (having never died) a rapture? As we see here too for the two witnesses (Rev 11:11-12):
11 And after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.
The way that reads though is a resurrection and not rapture, right? God puts breath into them. Not transforming them into eternal bodies though. They were not changed within a blink of an eye. Well…this is the take I get somewhat. They seem to go up like Enoch and Elijah…also never to have been stated as Enoch and Elijah changing or transforming into eternal bodies. Blessings.
Not sure it will be sacrificing a pig…could be. Declaring oneself god is abomination…
Perfect!! Our God must have known! It was meant especially for you, my brother!
So you would see we are in the tribulation? Where are the two witnesses? I would understand the 70th week as slated for the Jews. It would seem to be a week for them though being the 70th week given to Israel, no?
When asked to explain to the religious leaders, the healed blind man basically said, “…all I know is I was blind but now I see.” He had no clue re the science behind what JC did. Similarly, that is the case re resurrection, rapture & ascension. A good read is The Physics of Christianity by Frank Tipler. There is science behind all of the biblical miracles. For me
resurrection = death to life (mortal & immortal)
rapture = harpazo = caught away/taken out
Paul said, “…in the twinkling of an eye (instantaneously.” I think he was referring to what happened to JC in the tomb. His ascension was witnessed by the disciples (& perhaps others) & that WAS NOT instantaneous. The 2 witnesses in Rev. ascended similarly.
I think the Enoch, Elijah & Moses references refer to their spirits like John the Baptist was not Elijah but rather had the spirit of Elijah. JC SAID THAT. Rev. 11 refers to the 2 witnesses as the 2 lamp stands & 2 olive trees which I think refers 2 groups: gentile Christians & semitic Christians. This understanding is what solidified my thinking in these matters ( check @ youtube & general browser search) I cannot remember the the old test. scriptures that make these connections.
Restating my understandings:
1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50–54 and Revelation 11: 11 are the same event that happens 1 time to the Lord’s bride @ the middle of the last 7 yrs. Like in the wedding parable, the groom calls out His bride; He does not go to her house. After the wedding & celebrations is when they both return to her house; i.e., the Lord returns to earth as King with His saints “in tow.” MARANATHA
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The week is 7 yrs for everyone. I do think that week has begun. We are the witnesses & we are everywhere. Re the ones in Jerusalem, I don’t know & that’s because mainstream media will not tell us; they are all about propagandizing their evil narratives. Re the miracles of the 2 witnesses, look into directed energy weaponry & weather controlling with HAARP & chemtrails. Specifically, recall about a yr ago the destruction of the huge Geo… Floyd mural in Toledo, OH. MSM attributed that to lightening & residents said there were no storms that day.
So that would mean the believers will start doing supernatural miracles like killing people with fire and turning water to blood? We would be a year into the tribulation though if what you are saying might be accurate. When would we see the supernatural acts of the two witnesses in your view?
Main street media will not show us any truth.
Except when the two witnesses rise and horrified the on watching world?
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They will not be horrified; they will be ecstatic. It will be like Christmas for them, with gifts & celebrations. They’re going to be glad WE R GONE so they may pursue their evil rituals without interference.
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Revelation 11:7-13
7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie on the street of the great city which [f]spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 Those from the peoples, tribes, languages, and nations will look at their dead [g]bodies for three and a half days, and [h]will not allow their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. 10 And those who live on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who live on the earth.
11 And after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And [i]at that time there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; [j]seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
In looking at the word it does tell us that the whole world will be looking at their dead bodies lying in the street for three days. And before they leave the world will be extactic. Giving each other gifts over their defeat. But then when they rise from the dead it says fear comes over them. Not joy. And after they ascend an earth quake. So i believe brother you are perhaps mixing the initial celebration with the two witnesses ascension possibly? We are all welcome to have our own convictions. I would just say that to believe the two witnesses are only not noticed today because of deceptive media, is a great argument. But IMHO it is hanging quite a bit on why we don’t see them and potentially a symptom of conviction bias. Just saying. Yeah so if at some point we start seeing that stuff in the world…my hats off to you brother. Blessings.
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Anything that transpires after the rapture of the bride DOES NOT MATTER because WE R OUTTA HERE !
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My point was that if you might have be thinking of something as post 2 witnesses that belongs before the two witnesses departure, it might be a good way to assess how to look upon the midtrip rapture theory. If you have not seen some of the arguments in a thread started here many months ago regarding the 7th trumpet rapture, it might be interesting for you to check out possibly. I would admit that the 7th trumpet rapture seemed to be the only rapture theory (other than the pretrib–which i still hold to) that had me scratching my head, as “maybe.” And i gave it honest thought and put it to the forum to discuss it out in the open. There are some pretty interesting developments there. You may not agree with my findings. But it is a thread that broadens the considerations possibly. Blessings.
I luv that 7th trumpet. It’s the last one that is preceded by one of my favorite scriptures when the angel (or some being ) says, “LET THERE BE NO MORE DELAY !” I just luv that. It is such a realistic pic of what I see in my “3rd eye.”
2nd and “3rd sigh” in as many days.
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lol. I’d just leave it there at “lol” but posts have a minimum.
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