November 6, 2022: Bible Prophecy Update -Connecting the Prophetic Dots

Also check the horses in Jeremiah, there is a permutation of colors. Why I don’t know but it’s probably something in relation with those of tribulations.

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Greetings GR,

I think that there are some things in earth’s existence through time and future Prophetic Scripture that we can’t understand absolutely.

I also think that once we have disembarked from our earthly bodies, I think our perspective will greatly change.

I don’t dismiss your perspective at all, I put the perspective you outlined as a valid possibility…as I do with some other Scriptural topics.

I think finite humanity longing for His Infinite Promises is always a challenge.

There are absolutes in Scripture, like most importantly our Salvation, the seasons that would come, and the stage setting in exact accordance to His Word, all as we are seeing them unfold in these days we live. These things I take as absolute.

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Morning HC @hotchiwawa,
Perhaps those horses are related… I just can’t Biblically make a solid connection. Would love to find a good teaching on comparison of the two to help me navigate the texts.
Shalom

Morning David @yhvh4life
You Sir, are a gentleman and scholar. Totally agree with ALL you wrote. Have a wonderful day, my friend.
Shalom

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I have seen this connection also but in Zechariah.

Yes! So true. I agree with you on that, and everything you guys have said is spot on!

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Another stellar Prophecy Update by our Pastor JD.

Pastor JD is certainly doing his job of keeping us aware and our focus on our Redemption.

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I do agree with this outlook on the first 5 Seals myself. And I am able to hold a Pre-Tribulation rapture view with this outlook, as the only thing that changes in the approach is what is exactly defined as being part of the 7 year Tribulation. IE: The Tribulation starts with the Trumpet judgments.

:slight_smile:

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You’d be surprised at the count of lives murdered and martyred by RCC, Protestant, Muslim, and agnostic hands over the centuries since Christ’s ascension.

Lives lost to famine and plague over the centuries too.

Most of us think about the past in a frame of our current time.

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Jack - please consider this - Rev 5 before the seals are opened show the 24 elders dressed in White with crowns - they are believers with their new eternal bodies - they must have been raptured as they are not in the grave - i think this shows the rapture has occurred before the seals were opened - DR. ANDY WOODS teaches and has this same view -??? :latin_cross: MARANATHA

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@Rrush I think those are possibly the saints that came out of their graves when Christ was crucified.

I will fetch the verse.

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I think the 24 elders may be the saints from the Old Testament. And like Jack @FoxMan I think the tribulation starts at the trumpets, or the seventh seal.

The deed is given to Christ to judge after he opens all the seals, makes sense.

But I’m not gonna be mad if I’m wrong lol.

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I am going to research this - thank you for info - blessings this WEEK to you and JACK - MARANATHA

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@Rrush please let me know what you find, blessings :heart::pray:

MARANATHA!

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After hearing Pastor JD mention Rev. 18:23 this week, one of the few well-informed mentions I have heard, I am re-posting a revised, shortened version of a comment I sent to him via another route some time ago. Make of it what you will. I would especially appreciate feedback from anyone here who has an advanced understanding of biblical Greek. The original comment was in response to “The Proof is in the Prophetic Pudding”.

There is something I have wanted to point out for some time concerning “deception” and prophecy, involving a particular verse in Revelation that I have puzzled and prayed over for years, whose common translations don’t make much sense, Revelation 18:23. There is considerably more to it than the reference to deception and the presence of a Greek word that begins with “pharma”. It contains what I call "the two ὅτι’s, ('because’s), and this sequence strikes me as highly relevant to our present world situation and to the deep sea of deception in which we live.

The NASB offers a decent translation, although it is not terribly illuminating:

Rev. 18:23 …and the light of a lamp will never shine in you again; and the voice of the groom and bride will never be heard in you again; for your merchants were the powerful people of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your witchcraft.

The first portion of the verse in the NASB is a tight translation from the Greek; I have no issue with the part about lamps and weddings – it is quite exact, right down to placing “groom” before “bride”. It’s the last part that begs for a closer look, perhaps because the translators didn’t fully understand what they were translating. The powerful people of the earth? Witchcraft? There are better possible translations. I assume readers know something about “witchcraft”, but let’s look at “merchants” and “powerful people”. I would call these translations understatements!

“Merchants” appears earlier, in verses 3 and 11, as “the merchants of the earth” (οἱ ἔμποροι τῆς γῆς). “Of the earth” (τῆς γῆς) is also applied to the “the powerful people of the earth” (οἱ μεγιστᾶνες τῆς γῆς) in v. 23. They are related both through ὅτι and through τῆς γῆς. So who are these people, anyway? We do seem to be dominated by them and their deception, and it might be nice to start naming them properly.

To me, οἱ ἔμποροι τῆς γῆς suggests “transnational corporations” and their owners. That one is a little harder to pin down in modern terms, but then the situation we are in today exceeds what was extant in the 1st century, making things a little tough for John. What he had to work with was “merchants” (ἔμποροί), and specifically “merchants of the earth” from v. 3 & 11. This is the word from which we take the word “emporium”. In John’s time they were traders/merchants that boarded ships and traveled the known world, buying and selling things.

The other word is easier. These “powerful people”, or “important ones” (BDAG: “a person of high rank, great man, courtier, magnate”) “of the earth” would appear to me to be what we now refer to as the “global elite”. Think about who it is that attends gatherings of the World Economic Forum and other similar organizations. That’s them. The global merchants and the global elite. The text says that the merchants were (ēsan) the elite. They had been (before their final demise) deceiving the nations, and using sorcery to do it. But John was given the task of writing down the indescribable. With divine help, of course.

I don’t think I need to say too much about φαρμακείᾳ (pharmakeia). I feel that “sorcery” is a better translation. “Witchcraft” leans toward magic spells (in modern terms, perhaps “medical gaslighting” could be an example), while “sorcery” leans toward medicines and particularly medicinal poisons. And by the way, the history of western medicine encompasses the history of medical poisoning. Hippocrates excluded use of poisons in his oath (dedicated to Greek gods, but oh well). He referred to φάρμακον (medicine, another “pharma” word), but precluded only deadly/fatal ones (θανάσιμον). That part of the oath, naturally, was removed more recently, since the medical and pharmaceutical industry has been poisoning people for centuries with lethal agents such as mercury and arsenic. I am surprised that it took so long for them to change the oath. But the point is, this poisoning was going on even back in Jesus’ time and the Greek word for “medicine” had already taken on the additional meaning of “poison”.

(Side note: “pharmaceutical” has a slightly different etymology – see https://www.etymonline.com/word/pharmaceutical.)

What does Rev. 18:23 actually say, then, in modern language for the time in which the prophecy is to be fulfilled. My suggestion is something to the effect of:

…and the light of a lamp will never shine in you again; and the voice of the groom and bride will never be heard in you again because your transnational/global corporation owners were the global elite, because with your sorcery you deceived the nations.

That wouldn’t sell any additional Bibles, but have you seen any nations being deceived through the sorcery of the global elite and their merchants lately (let alone all!)? Do you know the published mechanisms of action of the modRNA (not mRNA) injections that have been administered to billions of deceived people, with even more formulations yet in the pipeline and coming soon? It is sorcery, every bit in the biblical sense.

(Another side note: every attribute of the originators and promoters of these shots can be found in Rev. 21:8, an enumeration of kinds of people that are destined for the Lake of Fire.)

Note that “deceived” in Rev. 23:18 is a particular inflection of the verb πλανάω (planaō) that also appears in Matt. 24:4 and in quite a number of other warnings.

One last thing. The word φαρμακείᾳ first appears in the NT in Gal. 5:20. It may be translated “sorcery”, or other words may be used. What I want to point out is the extreme warning in v. 21:

“…envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

That’s harsh! The same warning applies to idolatry (v. 20). I understand it as a warning to the deceivers, and not so much the deceived. Within the church, I suspect the problem is more with the practice of “medical idolatry” than with the practice of sorcery (and woe to those leaders that promote and idolize such practices) but great caution is advised either way. “Political idolatry” is another topic. And that is all I will say about that. For now, anyway.

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This might interest you. There are a couple of posts in regards to the 24 elders.
https://forum.jdfarag.org/t/notes-on-the-book-of-revelation/22907/2?u=dallast

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Morning Ralph @Rrush,
I know you didn’t address your thoughts to me but I too will be interested in what you find. I used to think the elders were the 12 sons of Jacob and the 12 apostles. But now I think the twelve OT elders will be from the tribes as listed in Revelation 7:5-8. There might be other verses to support/deny this, but I don’t know of any.

My reason for thinking this is that since the NT speaks of twelve, then logically the OT would also supply twelve. And the heads of each of tribe seems fitting… except a couple tribes were cursed and are not in the Revelation list of the 144,000. So I think that one head from each of the tribes listed might be the OT part of the 24 Elders.

There are a couple passages in the NT in which Jesus says outright that the apostles would be sitting on thrones as judges, so it seems they might be part of the Elders. The only problem with this is that John says he saw twenty-four. So, if the vision was spiritual (a “dream”) no problem. But if the vision was real-time…. Houston, we have a problem. Unless God adjusted John’s sight. But then, of course, what about Paul? What about Mattias? Maybe Casey is on to something…. Or maybe we aren’t suppose to focus on that part of the vision so much.

Luke 22
28 You are those who have stood by me in my trials. 29 And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19
27“Look,” Peter replied, “we have left everything to follow You. What then will there be for us?” 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne,
you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

just my thoughts

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So I think there IS a connection between Jeremiah and Zechariah. I just can’t (yet) see Revelation as the same group.

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Not only is she Deputy PM of Canada plus Finance Minister of Canada, plus on the Board of the WEF but now being rumoured to become head of NATO (Sec Gen)

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Interesting.

I would need to study more on this. It may be like the “seven thunders” and just not be revealed.

Lots of what is out there on the elders is very speculative, and I like what that one teacher said…Brett Meader (sp?)

“If you were on an island without any scholars to “help” you, you would figure out the rapture is pretribulation all on your own”

Teachers are great, but sometimes it’s better that you let the Holy Spirit teach you. I think that’s why we “search the scriptures to see if what they say, is true”

Nothing wrong with teachers, but I like to also see it for myself in the word.

Also, some things might be unknowable on this side of heaven too.

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