Weird spiritual vibes

I like these guys as far as planning for troubled times they are Christians and I like them and what they do.

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Without looking at the context, it sounded to me like you were talking about Steven Furtick.

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No no where near the issues that pastor is creating. Amir to me is really more looking out for Israel and I believe he see’s that as a big part of his mission even though I don’t anything about him actually witnessing to them?

I was totally not happy when he brought on the two Doctors advocating taking the vaccine they all sounded like typical Israeli Politian’s to me.

Shalom

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I hear what you are saying Dan, but i see this a different way. No doubt those in ministry read themselves into the Trump context more than they ought to have. But guessing on Trump’s allegiances I don’t think is relevant here. I don’t think it mattered where Trump’s allegiances were beyond (as a president of a nation–that he have the nations best interest in mind).

I think looking at this situation from the angle you have suggested, to me, comes too dangerously close to circular reasoning.

  1. Trump’s support of religion is a good presidential quality (his leanings to a confused sense of heresy does not matter as per his office).

  2. Getting Trump saved is the passion of believers. But we plant seeds, water, but God gives the increase. So Trump will align spiritually wherever. This issue of US President is for Christians to faithfully represent their people to the government. Not win Trump from heresy or think to be tricked if we don’t some how. Trump will believe what he does. If Trump’s allegiance is to his own pride, then why did he step down? Do you know there is a clause in the constitution to have a military vote recount? Trump could have pushed for that. But stepped down for the good of the country and system at that time. Of course Trump could have humbled himself unto salvation. But I don’t exactly subscribe to the Christian tendency of wagging the finger at those that have not seen past a certain level of heresy. In the reformation age, Hubmaier was put to death for baptism of adult by full emersion (because in those days the cool kids that ran Christianity thought infant baptism–like their predecessor the Catholic Church was biblical and that heretics should be put to death). Hubmaier was actually biblically correct, did not believe in killing heretics…but having patience towards them in hopes they repent.

Balthasar Hubmaier - Wikipedia

Did Jack become too flattered by the attention? Yes I believe so. Is that a strong quality of a Christian leader? Absolutely not. Did Jack become seduced by his own role in history? It would look to be so. These are all qualities of our age and can apply to many of us. But I think taking too much glee in how wrong Jack was might be short lived brother. Not that Jack would be right…but that Trump might indeed return. And if so, that then does not make Jack right, or make heresy right. It just might make Trump president and without reading too much into things (even though I would and you know how…lol) we take it from there.

I totally hear where you are coming from Dan. Jack was rather fickle in my estimation. But I perceive the role Trump may have transcend where I think modern day Christianity is spoiled.

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Yes I agree it has become that. My point was though that in the midst of the church circus, Trump (one we would ridicule and point the finger at), to me, likely has a real role that far transcends the fickle nature of the spoiled church. I think it is difficult for us to divorce the two of those things. But yes Ed, the church has become as you say. But it is the influence of our age upon it. The fault is likely with the real church having let it happened, more than what it had turned into. Yet not to blame, but to distinguish. And all we can do is press on in truest Christian heart. Hope that makes sense. Blessings.

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Well that’s the point the allegiances dictates what is relevant. Meaning it don’t mean anything about his heart if he is only following orders.

Anyway moving on.

Nearly every president even Obama claimed to be a Believer of some sort that I know of. It used to be the way to win. But Trump knew what would get him in patriots and Christians. I believe Trump is a Patriot but also a realist he knows where this is all suppose to going but who gets it is what his eye is on and how maybe.

Just Like the Bush’s and Reagan they were left before they were right, correct?

Yes but Obama owned the generals not Trump, he didn’t seem to think removing OB’s appointee’s in FBI, CIA, AG was important enough and if he finally did he replaced them with Deep State people duh?
Not only that the generals made it clear they were not getting involved especially after the 3 Supreme court judges looked the other way for the same reason.

Just for grins what if this was always the plan we know Satan plays both sides correct. What if the plan was to break up the stale mate of the two winged bird and the Democratic system?

What happens if more comes out enough to tie all of the traitors together on both sided and the Deep State steps in with a new crisis and folks decide that’s it we want our country back even if by civil war?

Who or what would end up with the control of the Hammer of the earth?

But in his estate shall he honor the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honor with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. But in his estate. 1 Timothy 4:1

While the AC may not stand in DC he may soon own it anyway.

Well if you think I take any glee in this you know me not. My goal is to not be deceived and drawn down a path set as a trap by unseen forces brother.

Jack loves history and has had a roll in it but even Samuel kept his distance from the king and for good reason.

I believe Jack might trust but might need to verify to a higher degree is all I am saying. I can and have fallen for the same things but then when I do finally see more clearly after verifying things I repent and move on.

Who am I to say what his motives are as a preacher but he put himself out there for Trump and God said NO!

If Trump comes back it may not going the book you are hoping to read.

Shalom

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Russian’s 1st started with socialist in small black and white churches also took over the Christians colleges and a few generations later here we are.

Maranatha

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You don’t know this.

It is helpful to see nuances and not just gloss over everything with a thick paint brush. 2016 was the first time John Macarthur ever came out in favor of a political side. The church knew that if Hillary got in (in legacy of Obama) the church was toast. John Macarthur did not assert to vote for Trump the man but for the ticket. That is huge arm twisting in a man who is NEVER political except for Trump 2016. All I am saying with this is that that social artifact supersedes conflating Trump with Obama…not to mention how much Trump did favor right to life and conservative Christianity compared to Obama…its ok to see that…it was literal history–I believe brother you are in too much of a hurry to make conclusions so as not to be able to reasonably and soberly consider alternatives).

I believe this is of temporal mindedness and seeing things prematurely. Let me ask you Dan, what happens if Arizona voter fraud evidence picks up in July or August and other states start moving also in that direction? Will you only be able to edit it as another conspiracy of the deep state? I don’t believe there is any event that can occur that would free you from seeing only Hegelian Dialect. I fear that mindset has possessed your mind a bit brother. You seem to paint everything with that brush. The danger in doing so is falling victim to looking upon things with a sense that we are really in the know in so doing. And as Reagan said: “The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.” And we should not fall prey to their disease is all I’m saying.

What if we don’t give Satan such sovereignty in the age of grace? God still exists, no? Is it ok if He does?

I meant glee metaphorically. Your focus is on how duped he was. I think he was duped but that is not really an issue…a kind of predictable incident in our modern culture. I meant it more like “Why is his blunder so big a part of your focus?”

The National Committee on Paranoia wants to make you president. This is tongue-in-cheek Dan. What if the devil knows that above all you don’t want to be deceived? Like, you know, how he helped Eve with that.

It’s unfortunate, but even if that happens and is…there is no way it could for you. It’s not about me being right. I believe it is good to practice not coveting our views on prophecy. I am ready for Trump to be AC if so. I am ready for a deep state master psyop like you see. But it does not sound like you could ever be ready for something that does not align with your trajectory. And in love, brother, you ought to take notice of that.

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Well they were politicians, so they were always behind the 8 ball they could and wouldn’t go past the line they knew not to.

All the rules were thrown out for this take down show. It was to EZ the people were sick of and have been made sick of our whole corrupted system.

They for the most part wanted anything but a politician. Pretty good plan, brilliant, more brilliant than the performance of protecting us from a plandemic and a rigged election that everyone knew was coming.

Maranatha

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RE: (as a president of a nation–that he have the nations best interest in mind).

Correct no more than you did with your statement of his allegiances for the country? Don’t that matter why is this one sided?

I hope so but how do you really know if until the cookie crumbles.
Coveting really just because you have not shown me anything substantial to believe differently?

I have been watching this play out just like you, we have had no good options for a reason just like we had no good options for all other elections.

I don’t see this one as a fluke or Gods providence (smiling) on the USA maybe just his will to let it finish out the plan and give us another chance to repent but do you think we saw that? No me neither so we lost all we gained didn’t we or thought we gained.

Most everything you say on this is just conjecture also. And that’s what you are challenging me with now but with a less than cordial attitude maybe a bit frustrated sorry how about we just call this one off?

This can’t be settled until God himself shows everyone in the next short while I hope we are not here for that. because the only good times I see coming in the Book is a false good times.

Shalom

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That’s what I have been saying the whole time. But now its seems Trump is not happy with the way it played out or maybe he is, who really knows what comes next?

Shalom

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I agree and said it was Gods will. Not sure how much work God had to do to hold it together. I am grateful in His mercy he showed us all just how corrupt and under deep the control of the world and yes the USA is today.

In speaking in a general sense maybe some needed to see this as to understand we are not of this world and should not hold on so tight you can’t take it with you.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

This seems a little to easy buy in on for me when considering Satan is brilliant you would have expected it to be more than straight forward as this. Most of the conservatives even if not believers all see the way most Christians do. Why because we win Peace and safety along with prosperity.

So far everything going on here seems to parallels that in Israel why if we have watched Trump support Israel like no other, yet this is the outcome?
They have war now what for us?

Well I will say this I warned my fellow elders when Bush 2 was president and I started seeing what he was doing in Israel like his father they didn’t believe me either.

We shall soon see who is playing who.

Shalom

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A Big Part Of The Miracle?
How Trump’s campaign used the new data-industrial complex to win the election (lse.ac.uk)

I saw this 3 years ago and I had not voted for him yet I did this time.

Why because he was saving babies and doing good, things the other side did not. But he is tied to the Mystics in Israel and they play by the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Their religion runs by science of numbers.

I am open to being wrong but do the research before you do.

Shalom

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I would say we have different orientations Dan. From what I can tell, Trump was in no wise a globalist. The only way I would know we could tie him in to that would be our thinking that there is never a plan in operation but theirs. I don’t think the burden is mine actually in all honesty brother. Every argument I have seen that puts Trump as a globalist always has more to it. And when I see that it plays into a greater narrative that suggests something alternative to globalism. So we have to choose there what to believe. Again, nothing has resonated with me that suggests Trump is playing along with the globalists. Not even the vax.

I think Trump was a great option. Dan don’t you think it is odd thinking this way after we got a president that actually did what he said? As much as you might differ on issues does that not perk your interest as to why that might be? I mean we just had the most incredible president in modern history and it seems the nation has suffered the fringe effects of TDS.

Sorry Dan I don’t mean it to be less than cordial. I mean like when I am saying things direct I mean to just be real. They are real questions. My reasons for heightened language is yeah I guess out of frustration. I see you as a great guy with questions and of course convictions. But it is just that when we talk about these things I don’t get the sense that you might consider other options. Would you ever think: Ok Trump is a patriot and not a part of the deep state game? Because i have never heard you entertain that notion. Maybe I am wrong? If so, I apologize brother. I just have never heard this from you that I recall. Is that something you could honestly consider? If so, yeah well then maybe I am mistaken.

Like with Jack Hibbs it was not meant personally like what I said about how you might be looking upon him. I was just going by the focus you placed on the outcome of how you were seeing that. I know Hibbs has some issues. I see them too. I don’t like that he marginally sides with NAR. And does placate to them. I mean I see that you have a genuine concern. But i am just trying to let you know that to me seeing Jack in that light in the ultimate context you might tend to land upon, well, it is just more looking at the church getting sucked into Trump. And although for sure that has been true…I am hopeful to have kicked up some dust that does not end as that as a focus. Because although what you see is accurate. PLEASE HEAR THAT BROTHER :slight_smile: What you say is accurate. I believe in you Dan :slight_smile: But i think it is dangerous to only land there. And my desire was to underscore beyond that though. Not that you should not have that convictions. For i agree it is real and valid. But to end on that sort of note does suggest to me that Jack might play into your concerns well at least certainly more than I would. And certainly more than I would see the context warrants. I understand this is a matter of opinion. I get that brother. But my hope is to discuss perhaps on different levels. Admittedly my use of piquantics is likely too :scream:

Dan, brother, the differences we have are in flux. Most people will just take it from where things are now. Biden won and now everything is going South. I don’t believe brother that Trump was a chance to repent. Well, we see that differently. I see it as a time of process. But process for what, I’m guessing is the question. If Arizona audit tanks and the voting thing goes nowhere, yeah, i will be the first to say to you, “Dan, what I was thinking was based on voting results this season. Outside of that, yeah I see no path to what I was thinking. And I am now a Hegelian Dialecticision. I’ll join you.” Because without reassonable voting…it does not matter what happens next. Its all a lie. Noted.

The differences in how we are looking at this is that I am looking for things to clarify this summer. For me it would make sense to do so. For it is highly reasonable to consider that the deep state would want to steal an election. So I am looking “forward” to see how things play out. I am totally willing to say that I will change my mind at that point. But please in all honesty Dan, where might be the point where you might say that? Maybe I am mistaken, and if so brother, I ask your forgiveness. But the way we have been going back and forth, the points I am hopeful to stress is: “What has to happen for you to see differently?” If nothing, then lets agree to stand there. But if there is nothing that can happen for you change your thoughts or if there is nothing that could happen where you might consider other things, then I honestly ask Dan, and I mean this dear brother in great respect: How is that a conversation? Then it is just my convictions vs. your convictions and no matter what happens it will always be different unless I change. Does that make sense? So let me ask you…what has to happen for your to consider differently? Or is there anything? If not then we have made progress and we know it is one orientation of prophecy vs another. And it is not something needed to discuss (or at least much) because our convictions have been established and there is no other route. So we just, like, know. Ok, that is what Dan believes, and this is what Teren believes. But I am telling you in very specific words what would make me change. Had Trump stayed back and did not challenge that vote still, back and enforce nominees of republican party for 2022, do rallies, soon to start a social media etc…this is a man that intends to be in the political mix in a serious way…at a time when the country just went ridiculous under new ridiculous leadership. If our country continues to go this direction, we will become socialist and the constitution goes away. If we are off on prophecy timing…we may have to live with that for a decade or so. These are not minor issues or events in our country. But had Trump just faded away, I would probably be siding with you Dan. In addition, the deep state is constantly trying to get at Trump. Like reopening January 6th again. Its is like they are addicted to get him. So things to me are in flux. And I am willing to understand as we go. But like I said, if no voter fraud or huge reforms, who cares what happens in 2022.

If by false you mean it won’t last 1,000 years…yeah…i agree. But I am not saying anything different. I am asking you to please consider what I am saying. I am not saying Trump is going to rule the world and its all good and Christ will be good with that and return at another time. I am not saying that.

Where we differ is that you do not believe that there can be a good short time and it not be false. I am indifying our differences. So it does not matter if it goes in that direction because it won’t change how you are thinking about things. It seems like no matter what happens Trump is an evil player and it has to be about deception. I respectfully disagree. But even if it goes as I see, you have stated you are convinced to see only deception. This is what I hear you telling me. Are you saying something different? Are you saying that you will think maybe its not about deception? I have not understood any sense of you ever coming to that conclusion. So i will ask Dan, is there something that could happen where you wont think its just deception? Blessings.

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Will I believe that Trump is not part of the Deep State sure but its going to take more than doing good deeds to do it.

I would not be totally surprised if he gets another chance as the Mystic Rabbi’s were also prophesizing his win right along with the Kingdom Now NAR’s.

I am not looking for a peace and safety anytime soon do I hope a true peace sure hope even a short one you are right. Peace seems the warning sign we are told to look out for correct?

But you tell me this how will a peace come to the USA how will Trump get the white house back even if they can prove it.

And if he can without a civil war who becomes the dominate church in the USA?

The one world religion lead by the Militant Catholic and the Kingdom Now Prophets that foretold in some form or fashion Trump would win two terms the same folks that had no clue the Planemic was coming or it would be a war in the middle to get the 2nd term.

I don’t think it works out to well whatever shows up in Arizona. Not sure you have really though this out and he was shown to win and then it comes to actually getting the crown back to its rightful owner the People.

I see this leading to a Worldwide Civil War that could easily usher in AC possibly.

Do you see it as a gentleman’s agreement to hand back the power peacefully? Who knows maybe the military’s is waiting on Trump to prove his case and will step in. I am not holding my breath on that they are leaving in droves as we speak because of Jobama. But they will help in the civil war.

Maranatha

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I am in agreement with so many of your assessments in this discussion, although I’m not familiar with the circumstances you’re discussing surrounding Jack Hibbs. I, too, have been wary of Trump for a long time. He brought prosperity to the country and his nationalistic stance was good for America among several other conservative policies he implemented. However, he is a very prideful person, to be sure. I was never convinced of any true “heart conversion” when it came to our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe, because of this, he is certainly capable of becoming a vessel of the dishonor or a tool for the adversary. This cryptic scripture references in Revelation 17:11 **The beast which was, and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven , and he goes to destruction" keeps coming to my mind in regards to president Trump….so much so that I was not able to cast my vote last year. I don’t trust anyone in power. Power corrupts. Let God be true and EVERY man a liar.

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I’m gonna make a poster out of this. I am just warning you ahead of time. So just get ready :grin:

I don’t really get involved with that. That is on them. That’s their issue. I am trying to see things from a grander scale than random groups getting all giddy.

Yes, like that Hope for Our Times video you posted recently. See, other people see it. I think it is a real peace but a short lived one. I think that is what is coming. Of course instead we could get Ez 38. But not sure which timezone we are actually in. If I had to bet, I would say peace first and Ez 38 as seal 2. But that could be totally wrong. It could be Ez 38 first and then down the road peace. @Becky had some good insight on that. Like perhaps it might be that Ez 38 devestates the world and brings on massive peace. It is hard to say. But i would go with peace then Ez 38. But i would not be everything i have on that.

If voter fraud findings prevail, and the nation has concern…the constitutional provision is that the military steps in and freezes the reigning white house until either another vote or a decision on what to do next is taken.

You want a fun one? Trump runs for congress. Gets speaker of the house. Impeaches Biden. I’d pay big money to see that movie. It has been mentioned in mainstream media…again MAINSTREAM media lately as “a path.” But that is too delicious. Not holding my breath.

Being so close to the tribulation, honestly Dan, I don’t know. I don’t see how that matters though if we are on our way out. I mean I know that is a big concern for NAR and those opposed to NAR. But to me NAR is incidental. I mean I am concerned if a great awakening twists scripture…but kind of like we are about anything that twists scripture. It still comes out the same. Christ is God. Repent. No matter who gets power.

But God. That and my take is Trump is the 1st seal. I think a seal would override the normal path to disrupt a throne.

I think it can turn into that. But I doubt it. I think this is something that is too fine tuned. It would likely avoid war. But retaliation like wars or catastrophe? Yeah that could well be. It would not be small. But its either that or good bye world. Which is going away anyway…its just a good thing we don’t force feed the deep state. They can feed themselves on scraps while they regroup. They got plenty of time to gouge out the world’s eyes.

Nice thought. In a perfect world, sure. But what I think we are witnesses is all out war against globalism. They have to appear to play nice. But the shockwaves are likely coming. 5150 (the criminally insane) do not make gentlemen agreements. They must be taken over by force. But like an Iphone…a SmartForce. :slight_smile:

Ok, but that’s a poster for another time :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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I don’t think Trump converted either. But as for Rev 17, i think we are all trying to work through what the heck to be looking at…lol. Its all over the place that is for sure. I would keep in mind too Daniel 11:37. Trump showed regard. Maybe not his own necessarily. But for the country he showed regard. A good thing to at least consider. The clearer verses helping us make sense of the not so clear ones.

My understanding of Rev 17 is that it occurs at the midpoint of the trib…not now. Like the AC will “come back to life” and amaze the world. Not get back into office. When we start counting how would we know #1, #2, #3 etc. That too would have to make sense. Not sure if it will at the middle of the trib either though. But it should be something we could notice. I don’t think it is from ancient nations or Roman kings. I think it is from a batch of people in our era. But i could be wrong of course. And how to count???

Blessings.

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Thanks for the reply. I know it (Rev 17) sounds crazy. I know. And yes, the time frame is an issue for now. But I believe we won’t be here when the man of lawlessness is revealed as such at the midpoint. That doesn’t mean he won’t have been on the scene already, although there is a verse stating AC rises from “obscurity” He will make everything seem great for the first 3.5 years (and I see that beginning very very soon) and SO Many people see Trump as a savior-a lot of conservative “Christians” too. And I think he sees himself as a hero. It’s all going to be very political. By his policy he will deceive many. Daniel11:37 No regard for women, hmmm…Maybe it’s Obama-everyone says Michelle is a man :woman_shrugging:t2::roll_eyes::shushing_face:

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Aliyah you bring up a good point about Daniel 11:37. One thing I have not done (well I used to though) is when seeing if we might have a hint of who the AC is today, that that person should be homosexual. There are commentaries and theological views that what that verse means is talking about religion and beliefs in God. “No desire for women” in context in that view = no desire in those that women hold to be gods…like moon gods. There is quite a bit of scholarship out there. I used to think it meant that the AC had no delight in women sexually. But the entire context of it is religions. Check out the first 4 versions on this link. It is not until you get to NASB (which is actually my preferred version), that it starts to sound like it is about no love for women kind of thing.

https://bit.ly/2SCBwSZ

In 2017, I used to believe that Trump was the AC. There are things about Trump Tower, plus other things about the man that led me to believe he was (especially when we see Jared Kushner in the mix). But as I saw how he had a desire to help America when all the evil regime around him clearly did not, I could not believe that those most evil would be against the AC. Nor that the AC would actually be patriotic. For he himself would only be for himself.

What i tend to be a bit more interested in today is how amazing there are so many views of the man. And especially on the dark side. Like he is globalist, or part of the system faking it, or AC, or a lot of other things. True, the church and several countries have made an idol out of the man. But I chalk that up to our not having any real leaders, and when one comes along it is human nature to overly fawn and have a school-girl crush…because we are not use to real leadership.

I could be wrong and Trump may indeed end up as AC. But i would actually give it a 3% possibility. I do believe though that Trump is likely on God’s prophetic schematic. At least we have seen how he has been toward the middle east end time formations. Pretty remarkable. Since 2018 I had been thinking that Trump does seem to fit the description of the 1st seal in Rev 6:2. Most see that as AC. But I do not. It could be, but doesn’t have to. The church had always seen that as good until 150 years ago. That does not make it so. But I think Trump is actually here as a force for good, and likely the 1st seal (as a good thing–before the levy breaks and all hell breaks loose).

So if we see the voter fraud evaluation taking off, then there will be many who might see Trump as AC rising back to power. There are views out there that permit incredible amounts of power for Trump yet future that have nothing to do with AC. In any event, thanks for your dialogue. I guess we shall see. Blessings. :slight_smile:

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