The only war that matches the set of nations in Psalm 83 would be the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. At that time the following nations attacked Israel:
Egypt
Transjordan
Iraq
Syria
Lebanon
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Here’s a map of ancient and modern nations of the Psalm 83 Arab Confederacy.
The other 2 wars – The Six-Day War and the Yom Kippur 1973 War do not have all of these nations attacking Israel.
Do you see anything else that can be a fulfillment of Psalm 83?
Ill wait a few weeks until things have settled down.
Thanks Kaatje. All the years I’ve known you dear sister, you have been a gracious queen daughter of His. You have always shown grace, and wisdom in not just what you say, but your way of thinking upon even how to express you thoughts. You well demonstrated the Proverb:4:9 regarding wisdom:
She will place on your head a garland of grace;
She will present you with a crown of beauty.”
Blessings 
Ironically John Macarthur also believes in the Nephilim as a result of spirits mating with humans. He is honored highly in the cessationists camps. He does not teach much on it, but having come from that camp, i had always believed what JD teaches since the 1980’s.
But as i had uncovered quite a bit of difference discerning certain hermeneutical approaches to scitpure from such a well respected church were not accurate, for me it kind of opened up pandoras box. But i believe in a good way.
Pastor JD’s view of Nephilim is strongly supported in the watcher world. Michael Heiser was a scholar respected by Logos Highe End Bible Software who always believe that way.
But after further research, I have changed my view on that. What changed my view was knowing that there were other views. But the sticking point to me is this:
Gen 1:25-28
25 God made the animals of the earth according to [a]their kind, and the livestock according to [b]their kind, and everything that crawls on the ground according to its kind; and God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “[c]Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and [d]let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that [e]moves on the earth.”
. . . . .
If God put boundaries in species (like different species cant mate with each other) and mankind cannot produce offspring from animals for the same reason, how is it that He might have missed that barrier from angels to mankind (created specifically in His image)? The Book Enoch might have become canon. But providentially it did not. So yeah biblically there is no case that angels can mate with humans. The idea, in my understanding, is pretty fantastic. But it is popular in watcher circles today. When something gets to be pop culture popular on TBN, that is likely a good red flag if it becomes too commercialized it is likely good to look deeper into it.
I have heard the argument that angels can take on human form like in the days of Lot. So to impregnate women like that in that argument seems reasonable. But one thing angels cannot do is become the image of God He created through Adam. Their appearance can change. But they don’t “become” created in the imagine of God like man. They don’t have the office to create themselves in God’s image. And provide sperm that can procreate in His image.
. . . . .
I thing I liked about Heiser is that he said at the time during the second century you can evidence that people were not thought of as heretics if they wanted or did not want to canonize the book of Enoch. It was fairly well understood that it could go either way. In todays climate we often align what we understand about scritpure (in concert often with our favorite pastors) to be practically canon. And if questioned, we tend to feel it is the devil doing that to us. When its really just a different interpretation of mature brothers and sisters that are trying their best to believe correctly too. In some ways, and i mean this tongue-in-cheeck, I feel like these are the Flip Wilson days of end times. The Devil made us do it. But like seeing that in others to justify our strongly held positions. Not saying you are doing that Michael. I just can totally understand why defending something other than amicably can tend to be a way we might see as reasonable today. It can come to become somewhat a norm. We seem to be in a time where if we don’t see something a particular way we might be deceived. Where it might just be we are looking at it differently. Sometimes we might be deceived. But in those cases the gentle wise spirit in Christ (who is also the Spirit of Prophecy Rev 1:9) would have the best shot at changing our perspective likely.
Thanks for bringing up some points good to discuss. As for spirits in prison found in Peter, here is another example of considering to look at the Nephilim issue a bit differently. Blessings.
I’m an American living in Germany. Your very correct about the dual meaning on word usage. God bless and thanks for your reply.
Jude 1:6 - And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—
The three “beings” that came to visit Abraham. One was Jesus, the other two were angels that had taken on human form. They were easily recognized by Lot and the men of the city.
Hebrews 13:2 - 2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Again, angels in human form. Additionally angels more than likely have a super high IQ and retained all of this intelligence after their fall - Even if they could not produce sperm, I am sure they could manipulate the DNA of mankind.
Adam & Eve had, I believe, this type of angelic covering prior to their sin, afterwards which - they realized they were naked. I’m not saying angels are human - however, after they fall and or manipulate and leave their abide - who knows. Apparently they are able to have sex with women, and produce a horrid form of offspring with human women. God didn’t create GIANTS… Soooo where did they come from.
All good for thought - The “Sons of God” refered to I think 12 other times in the Bible, all referred to angels. They are in chains of darkness for the level of their sin against mankind just waiting to get out and unleash hell on earth.
I dunno - I’m not an expert, but I’ve seen, studied and read enough to believe - God told us angels had sex with women.
Gen 6: 4&5 - 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men (giants) which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Anyhow - I guess we’ll all find out soon enough. God bless and thanks for your reply and thoughts.
So then you are speaking of descendants of Cain idea?
That is interesting, Michael.
It depends though WHICH years and HOW many of them you lived where.
I do not expect a response at all, I just wanted to point out that there are years during which the culture makes a more significant impression on us.
God bless!
You too Michael. I admit the way things are worded in many places, plus archaeology and stuff…it makes one scratch the head for sure brother. One thing I like to do is contrast views with easily provided generic scholarship. Of course that does not make them correct. But it gives us an idea of alternative thought. And it seems to be quite mainstream in scholarship.
I have not really researched in detail the line of Seth argument. When I first saw it years ago, I was still in favor of the spirits mating with woman view. I’ve kind of changed my view without really looking into the Seth view much. I guess it just seems to be there is enough wiggle room in how to look at the verses in question differently.
However, I will admit this, the thing I don’t feel all that comfortable with is scholars not really addressing enough to my satisfication the following:
a) Clear consus on what the chains are (there are varying ways to look at that…but they are not all that robust to me).
b) Are these all the fallen angels ever? How is it possible that Rev 12 has a war then in the future?
c) If all fallen angels are in prison before Christ came (for Him to visit) how is it different now with the angels? When we see like Eph 3:10 and Col 2:15, how has that changed fallen angel abilities today?
I have not seen great handlings of these nuances. Thanks for your feedback and brotherly care in so doing brother. The following is just a pet peeve of mine. But I just get the sense today that the watcher world can tend to exult Satan beyond what is proper I believe. Like I agree angels have higher IQ and more powerful than humans currently. But I would not see them being able to transform (like a shapeshifter man to wareworlf like) into an “actual” biological, atomic, and fertile inducing essence of mankind to procreate. Each human (made in God’s image) is born through human parents or human embryo). There is no way in which any person arrived under a different condition than we know of. And being that it is the image of God we talking about…I believe we inadvertently (not on purpose but by default) pale the awesomeness of God’s image (as He ordained only in mankind) and exult fallen capicity. So just saying…when noticing that is kind of how this argument can lean, it is something to factor in as to maybe the church should not be so comfortable in doing that…or at least going along with that…kind of thing?
Even so, really appreciate your heart Michael. Thanks brother. Blessings.
Actually I have not looked into it that deeply. Ironically it is not all that important to me. Which I find strange about myself because it seems incredibly important to watchers in general. To the degree the Seth line/Cain line go hand in hand (like I guess that is what I would see in the land of Canan–to take their promised land from them), I guess I would lean toward that view. But to be honest I have not taken the time to really consider that. At this point I am only at this stage:
And I would answer “yes.” So I see I can rule out this: “There is absolutely NO other way to interpret (within orthodoxy) those verses.” So at this point I just see that there are other ways. And if there are other ways, I ask myself how might that compare to what the alternative to my view means?
The answer to that is:
For those reasons I believe there is more than enough reason to raise a red flag on the spirits mating with humanity view as proper. But only in as much as I would not rule out other interpretations. That is the thing I would ask of watchers. If we are open minded enough to consider what we do, why are we perhaps in some ways not as open minded to consider other views than the ones we tend to gavlinize?
Maybe I should study that view of Cain or Seth more. I guess in my urgency not to, it kind of suggests that even the notion that there are at least others ways to look at those verses as a potential are an actual potential enough within themselves–in that I would hope it might suggest reason not to arm up too much under the presumption of what we might with DNA or things related to the book of Enoch not canonized.
I mean think about this one issue though Will: If we want to be the most biblical, why is it that a view like the fallen angel view has to rely so much on a second century book handed down oraclely that is not canonized? Just that question alone I would think would have any reasonable believer say, “If I believe this makes me MORE biblical–using books that are not canon to get me there–would I not have good reason to question mysefl as being biblical?” I don’t mean anything by that. I believe though the question does it not stand on its own as a real question though?
And if we are a generation that just goes with it thinking we should not question that, well that opens another can of Pandora’s box, might it not? Thanks Will. Blessings.
I think it is great that Pasotr JD allows different levels of discussions to exist on his forum. It is nice to know that we can see things differently and discuss them on a end times forum. This is a very precious thing. And I commend pastor JD for it.
I have somewhat of a similar view on one of your points Will. I believe that Psalm 83 is not prophetic. But if it might I guess I would have seen it accomplished in either 1948 or a streamed together overview of the decades of wars 1967, 1973 etc. Is there a reason you would not see that or those as already being fulfilled? Is it a view you hold because of current common media buzz or has it been something you have held for years? Blessings.
Amended
“And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day “ Jude 1:6 NKJ
KJV: “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
NASB “And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, “
“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. “ Gen.6:4 KJV
Job 1:6 “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.” KJV
Genesis 3:13, God says to Noah “The end of all flesh has come before Me.” This appears to be not a sin thing, nor even a Flood thing; but rather a corruption of human flesh apart from sin.
Grace and peace.
p.s. since Jude and Holy Spirit quote from the Book of Enoch, we can at least consider that artifact as a historical reference.
ps2 My apologies to @Michael.in.Germany who already covered most of the above cited.
Next time perhaps I should read the replies before responding.
ps3: How much weight of validity shall we place to the eyewitness reports of black-eyed children? Of alien abductions, which focus on the reproductive system? There are several similar subjects, which alone don’t mean as much as when you start to put “these things” together.
I used to read Jack Kelly - Grace Thru Faith….and he always wrote about the scenario presented before us now.
I think a lot of his ideas came from “Footsteps of the Messiah”
Thanks Robbie. But yeah one can see those verses and apply differently. But see how easy it is to throw them out there though. I’m just saying that we have come to a day and place in our age where we can throw the word out there like that having a sense of being so confident in its meaning. Yet those verses have other ways of looking at them. I don’t believe our generation is as up on that though. So that would kind of be the thing I think.
As for the mention in Jude of Enoch, the event Jude indicates is Enoch (from what I understand) as known by oral tradition. The Jews themselves did not canonized the book of Enoch knowing it was a more recent construction of the Enochian accounts. So some oral tradition is in there. In that book. I believe that is what Jude is affirming. If that makes sense. Blessings.
The Schumer/Netanyahu enmity confirms for me that the enemy is not united, as we have been led by some to believe (ie, One World Order); either that or it is all just smoke & mirrors.
Might you see though Psalm 83 as fulfilled in 1948 and or other decades of battle Israel has faced? Because those nations seemed involved then though? Or why would we remove all possibility of that from account and make it about now or the near future? What evidence gives us that differential right though? Blessings.
Yes it could have been fulfilled in 1948. Still think we could be seeing Psalm 83….
Look, if we see Ezekiel 38 unfolding….hallelujah!
One “irregular” hermeneutic i would see this is “mirror.” Things related to mirror concepts. It looks like those are the things to notice like that. Because 83/38 seem to traffick in our day like that, no? So just saying if it is like that so prevelently in Psalm and Ez, it seems that way with a few other things too, no? That seemds to come our age…kinda trippy though me thinks.
Yes I have noticed that as well…lets see what comes about in the next few weeks…we have a lot of possibilities.
