We tend to lock events into our idea of points on a line (timeline), as happened, is happening, or will happen. The truth is God’s time is not really a time as we know it as His present is always present. What we see is made past, present, or future tense by where we are on that timeline we are locked into.
Now before I say the following, I will say that I grew up with “Seals are the start of the Tribulation” when I first started exploring, studying, and researching Eschatology. I held that view taught to me for a long time.
I will also say I am not dogmatic about this new view, but it’s hard to leave it and go backwards at this point also. We simply did not know then what we know now after decades of further prophecy fulfillment…
I’m going to loosely deal with Revelation Chapter 5, 6, 7, and 8 here in the following and keeping in mind the “Son of Man” title that is often used by Jesus when referring to things involving those He loves. It is His “Kinsman Redeemer” title (Friend and Family). Jesus as Son of Man (Kinsman Redeemer title) redeems us through this process.
In regards to the Scroll Seals, most people get hung up on some inconsistencies in the KJV translation that throw a wrench in understanding who the “24 elders” are (or more importantly, are NOT because of the KJV mistranslation), and the difference between the first time John cries at no one being able to take the scroll, and the time one of the elders tells him not to cry because the Lamb that was slain has taken possession of it.
I don’t see these Seals as judgments. They are reclamation and witness events in the process of retrieving ownership and heir rights.
Adam was given dominion over the earth and creation. The scroll is the Title Deed lost by Adam to his fall, making Satan the master until repossessed legally by the death and sacrifice of the Second Adam, Jesus. In order for an heirship to proceed the previous had to die.
The Seals are the trustworthy witnesses of that Title deed and by breaking them they become actions towards legal repossession. They are also Spiritual, and not physical, so for example:
Seal one, the White Horse rider, is not the Physical AC (which if he were, would force this to be at the start of the Tribulation like many believe), but the Spirit of Antichrist, which was already at work in the times of the Apostles as mentioned by Paul and John and others in their epistles.
These seals represent cause and effect of the wrath of men, whereas the Trumpets represent the Wrath of the Lamb, and Vials/Bowls represent the wrath of the Father (God). Something you will see in Seal 6 here in a bit.
Also remember that John is in the Spirit after Chapter 4:1, not on earth or in the physical. He was told to write the things that were, things that are, and things that will be. These also overlap a bit between transitions.
- [The Things that Were] At the time (~95AD), the past was the record and witness of Jesus as Messiah in His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension. Christ is at the right hand of the Father and is able to take the scroll at this point (60 years before this writing).
- [The Things that Are] Then, and now more importantly is where we are at, towards the end of Chapter 3 with the Churches of Philadelphia and Laodicea. In the beginning of this Church age represented by the Seven Churches over roughly 2000 years so far, was the Church of Ephesus. Each of the Seven Churches represent a period of struggle and victory as the nature of the battle between light and dark has occurred, and yet also every believer and church has struggled with all of these aspects for that 2000 years. I’ll insert a link here to (Hosea 6:2-3) that indicates just that time frame using the (2 Peter 3:8-9) reference of a day being as a thousand years to God.
Hosea 6:2-3
After two days He will revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His presence. So let us know— let us press on to know the LORD. As surely as the sun rises, He will appear; He will come to us like the rain, like the spring showers that water the earth.
2 Peter 3_3-9
Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.
- [The Things that Will Be] Obviously after the start of Chapter 4:1 we are in the “Things that will be” for John’s point of view of time, as well as our own still even now prior to Tribulation.
Here we must define what is included in the Tribulation. What is represented by John being called up in the spirit in Chapter 4. Identify some mistranslations and some incorrect assumptions.
First the identity of who the 24 Elders are NOT… In chapter 5 verses 9-10 of Revelation the KJV would tell you they are us, and this was a biased choice in translation because of the crowns and white robes and their tossing of their crowns at His feet. The Greek properly implies a third person implication here and not a first person as it is rendered in KJV.
You’ll also notice in verse 8 (even in KJV) that they hold golden bowls of the prayers of the saints. The question is then if the 24 Elders are the saints, why are they holding their own prayers? And what about the four living creatures? They aren’t human either.
Rev 5:9-10 (KJV)
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 5:9-10 (NASB)
And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood [men] from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. “You have made them [to be] a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”
Rev 5:9-10 (BSB)
And they sang a new song:
“Worthy are You to take the scroll and open its seals,
because You were slain,
and by Your blood You purchased for God
those from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom
and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign upon the earth.”
This is super important here as later when we see the elders again in Chapter 7:9-17, with the great multitude, they are again differentiated from the saints, and these are not Trib saints either, as is often misinterpreted in verse 14. The “come out of great tribulation” does not refer to the Second half of the Tribulation, but simply great personal trial in their lives. It is not a noun or label for a time period but rather an adjective descriptor of struggle of their lives and their victory in Christ.
This great multitude is the resurrected and raptured Church. And chapter 7 is an intersession between Seal 6 and Seal 7, which are representations of the same event, one from the earthly view (as below) and the heavenly view at the throne (so above).
- If the seals are not part of the Tribulation, it does not make the rapture and resurrection mid-trib, it simply redefines what is part of the Tribulation, that being Trumpet Judgments and Vial/Bowl Judgments. Which is very much indicated in the 6th Seal.
Revelation 6:16-17
And they said to the mountains and the rocks,
“Fall on us and hide us
from the face of the One seated on the throne,
and from the wrath of the Lamb.
For the great day of Their wrath has come,
and who is able to withstand it?”
There is a purposeful delineation here, but yet Their Wrath, (Trumpets and Vials/Bowls). It goes further with this in the fact that the people on earth at this time know these judgments are coming, as in, the Tribulation has not started yet at Seal 6, but is about to.
When you tie this in with the chapter 7 Intersession of the 144K being sealed and the Great Multitude arrival at the throne, and then in Chapter 8 the Seven angles are given the 7 trumpets and another angel hurls the Golden Censor full of fire from the altar and the prayers of ALL the saints to the earth, you realize that the seals were not judgments from God, but cause and effect (like dominoes) of men on the earth and their mismanagement and warfare.
All instigated by satan the god of this world at the start with the spirit of antichrist. (White) Deception leads to War, (Red) War leads to Famine/Economic/Ecological Collapse, (Black) Famine/Economic/Ecological Collapse leads to (Green/Pale) Death and Disease.
- Getting back to Chapter 5, sure, it is about the right, and who is able, to take the scroll, but it is the very same Lamb in Chapter 6:1 who begins to open it just after taking it (2000 years ago mind you).
Also, he opened one of the seals (not all at once like some claim).
The timing between each seal opening may be up for discussion, but really, have we not seen these four riders the whole time since then, simply getting worse as we near the end, and on a global scale? We hear about them in Zechariah as well with a different purpose long ago when they patrolled the earth and found it at rest.
We know for sure at this point that Seal 6 and Seal 7 are not opened yet, and we could be at the Seal 5 point in the timeline.
- Seal 5 has often been misidentified as Tribulation saints because of the martyrdom, and immediately one thinks of the Tribulation saints as the martyrs because of the beheading.
But, martyrdom is not exclusive to just beheading. Anyone who dies for their faith in whatever way is a martyr. We have had martyrs since Jesus ascended. Burned, drowned, massacred by wild animals, etc.
The other point is what these martyrs say and are told, and also their condition.
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They are under the altar. They are spiritual not physical (Resurrected or Glorified bodies)
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“How long oh lord?” If they were Glorified or resurrected why would they be in such limbo since their redemption would be complete?
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They are told to rest a little while longer until the full number of all their brethren were martyred also. This isn’t Tribulation Period, this is Church age until final times of the Gentiles is completed.