I place this here to what might be coming but surely has been on the march a long time.
This also points to the West playing these same games, but it now appears Russia and China may have beaten everybody in getting Islam on board. That would be both Sunni and Shia it seems to be.
Except:
We still have not learned the major lesson of 20th-century history so adeptly conveyed by Motadel and Ihrig: Western leaders who try to get Islam on their side through propaganda and favors will be unpleasantly surprised.
If I posted it before sorry but it’s currently relevant I believe.
Yep, it’s me not here to quarrel or cause contention.
That’s an opinion we do not know others’ hearts or motives. While I do see that as a problem it certainly does happen but that is a generally large brush painting. As we all and I stress all have been giving our opinions on many things considering we all look through that glass darkly…
I believe your point is valid but far from certain even on your understanding of some interpretations. That’s fine I don’t expect anybody to have is all correct no matter what level of training they have. As far as the Lord calling out folks that get it wrong I trust Him to always do the right thing.
We have people here, not myself but others who likely have put more into the study of eschatology than any others may think yet they do not believe they have it so well understood that they would not consider sitting down and looking at all sides and leave it there for all to consider on their own.
I would say don’t judge others by what you think they know, by only what you know.
In other words, judge carefully if at all as I believe that is more concerning than getting our study of eschatology off some or even a little overly sensational for that matter. After all the Bible is a sensational book and we are blessed to live in grace by faith and He looks at our hearts 1st and last.
If you are trusting in YouTube videos, you are listening to men’s opinions as they share those opinions - just as you share your opinions. You have studied. They have studied. Your opinions differ. So what? Move on. Let them be.
I’ve been a Christian for over 45 years and in most of that time I have heard trusted People and Pastors with discernment and information teach Bible Prophecy as part of church doctrine. Most pastors that teach book by book, chapter by chapter, will teach on bible prophecy and many of these pastors have a direct calling from God to the ministry.
I’ve also seen where you have put down a pastor and dismissed them if that Pastor doesn’t agree with your point of view. It doesn’t seem to matter that the pastor has done in depth studies on the subject for years. You will find something to criticize their teaching because it doesn’t agree with yours.
At least the pastors I listen to, will state clearly that it is their opinion and that many others may disagree with them. They will be humble enough to acknowledge that their view may be wrong and eventually we will all find out the truth.
I agree with what Dec said
What is wrong with “looking at all sides and leave it there for all to consider on their own.” ?
You are NOT our teacher or the leader of this forum or thread. Some of us can do our own studies and listen to whoever we want to and make up our own minds - thank you.
You have a lot of input and much of it is good but you are not the final authority or the leader of the church.
EDIT: Bible prophecy will not be fully known till it happens so comparing it to telling someone about their salvation view is comparing apples to oranges in my opinion.
Glad to oblige. Anything to make you happy for a change. Hee Hee.
Yes I did. SURPRISE, SURPRISE, this girl CAN read. This must have been a real shock to your system. Hee Hee.
Yes I did - for the same reason you did - teaching false doctrine.
But you see, giving opinions about future prophecies is just that - opinions. Until it happens we don’t know for sure what will happen so your comment is beating around the bush, and trying to take the subject off topic, in my opinion.
WOW and double WOW!
You REALLY do seem to have a problem with Andy Woods it seems.
In case you haven’t noticed, I stick up for many Pastors on this forum, yet, you seem to constantly bring up Andy Woods with me.
Hmmm!!! I do wonder why???
I happen to listen to a number of Pastors daily and I don’t agree with all they say - I make up my own mind from what the Spirit teaches me and what I read in the word.
Good for you. You finally found something ‘short’ that Andy says that you can agree with.
Seeing you are sharing videos, perhaps you would like to look at this person’s view. He has an opposite opinion than yours. It’ only around 13 mins.
It seems you don’t read a lot on the forum because the Pastor I have defended the most on this forum is Jack Hibbs and not Andy. I did defend him in a conversation with you, where you knocked his stance on a subject and yet admitted you hadn’t even watched his videos. At that time, you claimed to have seen only one and then made up your mind about him. Anyway, that is neither here nor there.
As to his position on Psalm 83, at this moment I am not sure if I agree with his view or not. I am one of those that are waiting to see what happens. I don’t believe there is a psalm 83 war myself but I am not an expert and God can do whatever he wants to do.
Oh Poor poor Uturn. He is playig the victim card. Hee Hee.
Is that a hint of jealousy I am sensing or is it just the victim card being played again.
I only presented it as an opposing view. I am not totally sure yet if I agree with it or not. I know there are parts of it I agree with as I truly believe the last verses in Ez 39 happen at Armageddon. The rest I am waiting on. There are good scholars on all sides that have varying views. I try to take them all into consideration and see where the Holy Spirit leads. So far, nothing definite.
I wonder, and this is just my opinion, if Ez 39:9 could be the end of part of the first war and from 39:9 or so on, be part of the Armaggedon war.
In Dan. 11 we have something like that where everything up to around 11:30 has already happened and then it begins describing the Anti Christ in the future.
Uturn, part(I have many and the reasons increase weekly if not daily) of the reason why I have faith in Jesus is that the World mocks him through any means available-cartoons, articles, movies. I know He was the Son of God because of his humbleness. His speech-any comment, joke, side comment, was the Word of God. He came to this world and was crucified for being pure.
Unfortunately, you may think you are defending His Word but it does not need defense. When you reply, you defend yourself. The arrows and darts are not at His Word which you think you are defending but at you.
There is wisdom throughout the replies here but you reject them and see them as personal. Sometimes they are! But you really should reflect on what is being said or even how effective you are being. You see yourself as a defender of the Word of God but I am not sure others see this.
Perhaps you are correct in your analysis of Psalm 83 but my heart says that you are not because of the way you defend your position. You are not humble and you accuse the brethren. I could understand if they had a huge theological error-which I have pointed the finger in my own community(much to my own peril) but you are arguing over commas verses theological caverns.
If my memory is correct, that was at a time where you were blasting all kinds of people because they were sharing vids of Andy Woods on a number of different subjects. The Ez War also came up.
Some people left the forum because of your rude behaviour towards them at that time.
I questioned how you could judge the man when you didn’t even watch what he had to say. I also told you that some people share videos because the videos express what they would like to say and are unable to say it properly.
I’ve never seen that, and it sure doesn’t sound like the Jack Hibbs I watch.
Are you REALLY taking shots for standing for the TRUTH or for standing for YOUR truth? Just asking.
Possibly, if you had a better delivery and wasn’t so pompous in some of your replies, you wouldn’t have so many ‘shots’ come your way. (no offense meant - just my opinion and my truth.)
I know you can speak nice when you want to as you used to do it in p.m’s a loooong time ago. I haven’t forgotten.
I haven’t really heard his view except that he does believe it is in two parts. I did try to find something where he explained it but couldn’t find an explanation for his full view.
When I read EZ 38 and 39 I have always seen what looks like 2 wars or something like that. As I said, those last verses sound like they are at Jesus second coming. The rest I am unsure of.
Calvary Chapel Chino Hills is the church I visit when I can get in and yes that is Pastor Jack. Not a good moment for him I am afraid. He put way too much faith in a man like Trump who I am not sure is born again. I pray for pastor Jack as he has in recent times much attention on political endeavors and has a very questionable view on the worship in his church. He is being deceived and attacked on every side. Most recently the movie Nefarious was played for all who wanted to see it. Not a good movie in my opinion.
That’s a classic. Originally when the Trump admin was pushing for Abraham Accords, Hibbs was on his advisory team. When i heard Jack’s defense of the deal of the century and how on paper it affected Israel, i was much more impressed with JD’s take. I live near Hibbs church, been many times, have family that goes there. But he’s a bit too glam for me. In those days of the deal of the century, I was already far more interested in JD’s views on Ez 38…so i was kind of already won over by JD.
Now, a few years later, I’d go to Hibbs church again sometime…maybe even get an early upfront seat. But i did not like his graveling at Trump’s feet. I liked JD’s take much better. However, see things flux man i’m telling ya…I don’t know of any other pastor other than Hibbs that to me is ok in what i would personally define as somewhat comfortable in his own skin. He is the only pastor i know that on one hand can say “Maybe America is judged now,” and on the other hand say, “Maybe God might provide us more time.” Every other pastor that weighs in on escat stuff has to place some definates about America and / or judgement etc. Its kind oof understandable given our times, but Jack is like cool either way (a pastor who has expressed support for NAR even in the past…that’s a lot growth ). I think getting Trump yanked from Jack’s comfort zone brought him to a more real place. He is still too glam for me, but i can say that much about the man. And i’m glad he does take stances politicallly (I think there can be a measure of care there without it becoming full blown false light…like Pastor JD would attest about the friend he interviewed a while ago, Bud).
Oh yeah so that flux thing and one more thing…since i have had much more of a deep dive into the Abrahamic Covenant and some of the back story on the deal of the century, i have found myself moved significantly away from the JD position closer to Jack’s original view. This is just in the course of my own studies related to the themes and relevances of the Abrahamic Covenant upon Israel today. I see that very differently now than when i was turned off by Jack’s seemingly glam version of it.
In general though because i come out of the Voddie B school (with the many sojourners with him in the reformed camp) that people are going to be all over the map with reformed teaching. Some of the reformed doctrines are meaty and robust…but of course there is Calvinism and Lordship Salvation and theological distortions too all over the place. I hear what you are saying though Uturn, it is troubling to see minds like Voddie not see escat proper. I mean, there are redical concerns i have with his teaching (even though much of his stances are profoundly biblical…some WAY so not), it is a culture shock to see a man heavily invested in african ministry (literally in Africa)…such a heart and passion and yet so off escat wise. It kind of is a lot easier though to spot errors in escat than Calvinism (at least on face value i mean). So it makes demonstrating issues and concerns a bit easier when its front lobe escat doctrines…pretty straight forward this or that.
I would just say this last bit in hopes it to be received just like from a place myself of having been wrung dry previously by funadmentalist type ministries, that YES amen for your heart in taking a stand for His word brother. But i kind of see so many things forming that it would appear to be that people will be able to validate their views for a good long minute on what they think is happening regardless their escat. In part, it almost seems providential by design. Like if we really want to know, we would really have to want to know because we could drift into just about any camp with what seems to be on course. So yeah my passion is certainly escatological accuracy…amen…but functionally i believe my heart is most proportioned in encouraging unity (not in error or ecumenical) because the possibility of this thing getting perhaps more intense as far as what is happening is likely gonna be off the charts in my estimation–forming potentially an even greater divide than just the Psalm 83 thing. I don’t have an MD but in that sense i kind of find my role in passing out spiritual blood pressure meds while i’m not in my own groove of social graffiti muckrakin But i kind of look at all of that as pretty cool…because we only get 1 end time scenario (but even in that perhaps seemingly many)…not a dress rehersal. Pretty exciting times. Amen.
Hi Carole, i hope you had a blessed thanksgiving.
Agree with you on pastor Hibbs the worship i skip. The screeching in a dark room makes me think of banshees …
However last Sunday he said some awesome encouraging stuff…almost as goix as jd! He stressed tgat if we do not spend time alone with God, hear from God personally its all just noise and he is going to have to cut back on his commitments to spend mire 1 on 1 time with the Father. To me that was the most encouraging part of the sermon
Love to you Ron and sweet Gracie
muckrakin 
But i kind of look at all of that as pretty cool…because we only get 1 end time scenario (but even in that perhaps seemingly many)…not a dress rehersal. Pretty exciting times. Amen.
