I concur that people should not go around date setting with Stalarium. However, Answers in Genesis came against the Rev 12 sign 2017 controversy with very poor arguments. I believe there is one good argument…you cant barrow stars from another constellation. I would say that is a reasonable argument. But what i did see Uturn is a skilled church magestrate argue against a potential Rev 12 sign with industry standard boiler plate arguments that were weak as apple soace minus the apples. This made me think, “Why such poor argument from such a knowledgeable group?”
To me what speaks louder than Rev 12 sign hysteria is orgs that posture themselves as the experts using pedestrian arguments. That opened my eyes to what in my view seems like a generic Loadicean effect for our age potential. If some hold the view that the Rev 12 sign occurred, i am more comfortable with that than what it would seem the profesional church might do. That would cause me more of a red flag. On one hand we have enthusiasts. On the other we have “thus saith the Lord in the name of business and profession.” Which i think earmarks our day possibly.
The way i would process this sort of phenomenon is that we might be in an age where the church proper (as we have seen at least in some ways) may tend to hold up views that are off. In contrast it might be the riff raff things that are the “things that are not” that might or could actually see. It is a potential in any case…all things considered.
Of course that is not to say that theology in our age should be ruled by the tyranny of the misguided. Any of us doing serious research are to be sincerely commended. But my meager generic view is that there will likely be quite a few surprises as to how good view discovery might work in our age (or at least from varying sources).
In general i would see the Mazzaroth as a contendable referrent beyond Zodiac misconception. That does not mean for sure Virgo is the Rev 12 sign, but its not without some substance aside from tarrot card readers. Mazzaroth - Wikipedia
Genesis 1:14 Then God said, “Let there be [s]lights in the [t]expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall [u]serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; 15 and they [v]shall serve as lights in the [w]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so.
Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
We know at least in part there could be an argument for signs in the sky. In Rev 15 we are told that a celestial sign is for bowls. There are 4 celestial signs in Rev. Minus the Son of Man, there are 3, and 1 of those is bowls. Now this is “an” interpretation, and perhaps not the right one, but i find it interesting that the red dragon in Rev 12 has 1/3 associated with it. And then all the trumpets are one third except 5 which comes with a name. I would say the woman and child as the celestial sign for seals could be argued. And something seen in the age of grace explaining it as the only benevolent of the 3 celestial signs–due to its potential appearing during a time of God’s patience.
If true, this might be why the world seemed to have lost its mind in 2017 (and Israel affirmed Jerusalem & we noticed news as hyper progaganda)? And even more so in 2020? Certainly potential indicators of a far more bizarre moment in history when we had the day the entire world economies (in effect) stopped for COVID and photos of all tourist areas the world over were barren. We don’t see that in scripture but it is interesting that in some way the whole world was made aware of “something” different.
Of course it would be bad manners to force a view that others have to accept 2017 as the Rev 12 sign. But if some hold to that (without added date setting baggage), I would understand. I hold it. But i also reserve the right to be potentially wrong there. I actually believe Rev 12 though is the strongest evidence in the bible for a pretrib rapture. With the woman/child sign. Dispensational views date way back in seeing both Christ ascention and the church rapture because of Rev 2:26 The one who overcomes, and the one who keeps My deeds until the end, I will give him authority over the [q]nations 27 and he shall [r]rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are shattered, as I also have received authority from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star. 29 The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
AND Rev 3: 21‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
As pedestrian as some might see how so many people view endless videos and drink in all manner of youtube video hype, even so, I would argue that i am even in some ways worse…lol. Or at least more ghetto in ways. Like on this issue about the Rev 12 sign “rule out” because youtube is hype and rediculous (which no one can doubt is), I’d say as it is a radically pedestrain venue, but also is pretty global. And i could see something so faddish possibly constitute a thing that is not. If we believe the trib or Ez 38 event is somewhat near but not sure exactly how near…it would stand to reason that if Rev 12 sign is a celestial sign (in part as stated in the word it is), then it would not be necessarily impossible to at least sermise that we are potentially in a period piece of time escorted by a potential virgo hour glass.
Which is harder to say, that the Rev 12 sign could be something witnessed on stelarium. Or the world economies stop for all the world to see? Not in whole. Maybe not in part. But to visiually see tourist areas including Mecca vacant? Which is harder? Or which may be harder to say, that the Rev 12 sign occur the year Israel further evolves in Ezekiel 37? Or that Israel in our generation finally has affirmed Jerusalem her capital? And in 2017 wouldn’t it be harder to say that a world scam would force the world to wear masks and take a vax that was fake? Who would have believed that in 2017 when full birth abortion and a comic holds in hand the severed head of sitting president would entertain the national vanity fair. In any event, its strange, amen.
There is one way to see a rule out possibly of sorts though in the not too distant future. We do have the great American Eclipse 2 coming up in April. Part 1 was just a month prior to Sept 23 2017. If nothing, then it would seem (what some esteem to be potentially used omens of God, solar eclipses…in scripture we are told) that perhaps a collapse of America proper or an unusual empowering of her that year might attest perhaps to echoed elements of 2017ism…if relevant in any way. I realize this is no way you track at all…and likely seems superfluous. But it does look either way to be an interesting year. And may help us gauge some future things too perhaps. Or maybe even double down for our generation’s sense about what time it is or might be.
Incidently, I would not share the view that we would see a red dragon if the woman/child Rev sign occured or occurs. I would see Rev 12 as a story of two separate signs. And the red dragon a completely different era yet told in story form. I would not think a red dragon to come to the scene until days approaching trumpets. This would be my view. I think there is an argument for it. But yeah…only God knows. Blessing.s