Thanks Casey. Would you see that Israel is the group to evangelize during the tribulation? Would you see the tribulation as their 70th week? Or might you see the church going through part or all of the tribulation? Just curious if you are led to respond on this dear sister. Blessings.
In also reading your other post you may not have too much interest to answer here. Which is totally fine. No worries. Blessings 
John the baptist believed but is considered the last of the Old Testament prophets. I don’t think he would be included in the body of Christ. Would we say the Old Testament saints are the body of Christ? I don’t mean for that to sound so technocratic. Really you are correct it does not matter. Like we will all be tripping out before Him, wanting different arrangements or something. No. lol. But yeah in part it is good to consider having empathy toward the perspective of others. But also, having clarity in scripture can often provide two helpful things. The most important is having a more profound appreciation in how the things about “Him” are portrayed for our consumption in knowing Him. The other is a refinement in theology. Not for the sake of a big head. But rather so that when we come across other things in scripture we have somewhat of a fighting chance in understanding the nuance or range of potential nuance rather than just looking at things dogmatically if that makes sense.
I don’t look at it in terms of who is greater. Just doing diligence to understand where we might what He has provided for us to better understand Him and His ways better (something that will take eternity…so we get here a running start )
I would understand for example John 17 to the twelve inaugurally. And moving forward…us. The finer points of theology on this have implications for a wide range of nuance on other scriptures and doctrines. So to me its inching along in general discovery.
One example i will borrow from a theological sense i am familiar with (having nothing to do with who is the body of Christ), is the Preservation of the Saints Concept:
I view Matt 24 as to Israel and pertaining mainly to the focus of the tribulation era. Many see differently. I believe Pastor JD sees differently. But as a previous Calvinist, I used to believe in what is called “The Doctrine of the Preservation of the Saints.” This means that only those that persevere to the end will be saved. Now, there are other scriptures to consider important on this. But i believe we see other scriptures indicate a different picture like 1 Cor 3 “how can it be that there are those with no reward if they persevered so well” and 1 Cor 11 (how can those who got drunk and gluttonized the Lord’s table be saved at all? Yet punished by God so as to persevere them…their perseverance was death…lol).
Looking at Matt 24:13 is used by Calvinists to suggest the perseverance of the saints. This does in context look to be the tribulation period. So there is that. But i can see how some might just make it a universal application verse. However, because the context is extremely thickly tribulation-esque…i would go for that one. THEN pastors sometimes say they see this verse to mean: saved physically…going into the kingdom of the 1,000-year reign. If that is true, why that focus? Is not getting your head cut off good? Those will reign on thrones i believe. So why is it good to live. Why not die for Him? Why would there be that incentive? And the best I believe that makes sense to me is…
Matt 24:31. Some see this as a rapture verse. But Rock Harbor Church i believe gave the best answer: It is the angelic rescue of Israel worldwide at the end of the tribulation. The term “four corners of the earth” can be traced throughout the old testament always meaning land (even when it says four corners of heaven). So the timing makes a lot of sense. This would matter then in that “will be saved” seems to have a special meaning. Like God saving utterly according to His ancient desired promise toward Israel. And saved in the sense by angels swooping you up would be quite an event no? Matt 13:24-30 (looks like the parable of the wheat and tares in real life…THE not a parable part of the parable).
My apologies if this is counternarrative to how you might look upon these things, dear sister. Not trying to insist upon an interpretation. And even this view might be suspect. But it is an example of how we might see some things build upon understandings we might become aware of along the way. Because if this is more correct than not…wow…i would see this more a delight in His arriving at a promise and how He delights to do so (from Romans 11:26).
Even though you may view Matt 24 entirely differently i can only speak from my own journey. So i mean like this is how we develop in general as people. We gather and add onto and build from along the way with most things. I would advise against filling our heads with too many theological contests, but having some live working ones in empathy of others as well as reasonable potentials for our further development is kind of the reason i would have a curiosity in something like “the body.” Like i would be not concerned with that so much as i would to perhaps know something of that nature where i could also see another thing that actually might have a host of explosive (as a result of looking into all of that) potential in my love and transformation unto Christ-likeness in freshly animated hope in Him kind of thing…like 2 Cor 3:18–if that makes sense? Blessings.
2 Peter 3:18 – But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Hello Teren 
I don’t mind answering your questions
I think that is what the 144,000 are sealed for. It makes sense to me.
I think Daniel does say that. So yes, the Bible seems to indicate that.
The way I see it currently: the church will not go through the 7 years.
I am not sure that seals 1-5 are part of the “seven”.
The thing I know for sure is we are not appointed to wrath. So we will absolutely not be here for the trumpets and bowls.
I am pretty sure the rapture is very soon. I leave room for prophecy to unfold. It will get clearer as we get closer.
Feelings can be deceptive, but I FEEL like the rapture could be any day now.
The way I see the seals the rapture is next, and the 7 years will start the same time we go up in the rapture.
“On-tribulation rapture” is what I currently see.
I’m watching to see how things unfold and knowing my Bible as well as I possibly can, so I can discern the truth.
I’m watching 
Casey, I just wanted to comment on this sentence. This is what the Catholic religion teaches and then they go down a dark road of teaching Peter was the first pope etc etc etc.
When Peter responded to Jesus in Matthew16 saying “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God”. Jesus replied ,” Blessed are you,Simon , son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven . And I tell you that you are Peter ,and on this rock I will build my church,and the gates of Hades will not overcome it”.
The rock Jesus is referring to is the truth of Jesus being the Messiah. Not Peter . He is referencing the truth that Peter just shared.
You bring up an interesting point Blessed. Coming from Macarthur’s church, I had to ask myself when I read what you wrote, “Was I ever taught that?” What you shared actually sounded within context. Even better context than I remembered. But I never heard that before. Not like that. So thanks for the encouragement. As usual, when I have time, i like to check a number of different commentaries to get a sense of the range of potential. It is rare when certain things i hear that bear witness do not show up…or sometimes do but oh my sometimes i have to dig. Not with yours. It came right up on several. It just never made it my way…lol.
Typically I might be suspicious as to why Macarthur might not bring that sense you have out and chalk it up as a reformed movement having come out of the Catholic church. However, in this case one commentary I did visit: Vincent’s Word Studies gave some reasonable support as to why Jmac might not.
Vincent suggests your observation may not be the most natural flow in Greek. Keeping in mind of course, context (for me) is ALWAYS king over Greek meaning (i have seen what Calvinism does with Greek–context is so so much safer). So even though Vincent would not favor your understanding of the text flow and context focus based on Greek grammar, I’d say context may afford you this room because of poetic mirror effect. This became kind of fun to look into. I hope it is somewhat interesting. Here is how i mean poetic mirror;
John 1:42 Aramaic “Cephas” rock or stone / Greek Peter or petra rock or stone.
Of course, what the Catholics do is to make Peter pope…which is wrong regardless. But Macarthur always stuck to Peter as a little stone (Petra). I believe he might have gone that route and avoided altogether the “confession of Peter” sense because of this play on words. Even those commentaries that see your view and hold it, often also see the play on words…Peter as a stone or little rock. In that sense i believe it might be true that Jesus is of course demonstrating Himself in what Peter realizes, but also mirroring this benevolently by Peter. Meaning like, Christ says to Peter after Peter says “You are the Christ.” … “You are Peter.” So i don’t think its just saying his name. I think in order for it to be about the rock of Christ, Peter as a stone must be the mirror present. At least in terms of context.
Another part of this fascinating adventure you vicariously sent me on…thank you very much we can ask from scripture: does scripture use other metaphors like stone or rock for us people ever? Of course not to help lean Catholic. But perhaps to get at the variant nuances perhaps included somewhat in culture, language, and grammar not our own. For example, we see in Isaiah 51:1 Abraham referred to as a rock. And for whatever reason: Matt 3:9 Jesus means He could raise children of Abraham from stones (not a positive reference but perhaps it speaks to a cultural thing too more than just the way we might mean it kind of thing).
As for foundation meanings, we know Christ is the cornerstone. However, in Eph 2:20 Apostles and Prophets = foundation. Yet we know Christ is the one foundation 1 Cor 3. But in the sense of being the actually utter foundation. Meanwhile, the apostles are also noted as being a foundation in the arc of God’s unfolding story to us and the world. So i guess in that sense it might depend on what we mean by it i reckon. Never would Peter be the pope though…lol…for sure.
In 1 Peter 2 we find Peter Himself doing the mirror thing too.
4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by people, but is [i]choice and precious in the sight of God, 5 you also, as living stones, [j]are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices that are acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
So right there right next to each other we see both Christ as a living stone and us as living stones.
So i think I would see as you something like this:
“You are the Christ.”
“The Spirit has revealed this to you. And as surely as you honor me by seeing Me, I honor your faith, rock.”
“And upon Me the ROCK, rock, I build my church.”
Which if Jesus is doing that (wink wink thing) then it would suggest to Peter that he has a significant role because the little stone used knows the foundation big stone. And is useful as an apostle foundation."
I find this curious too why Peter and not Paul? How come Paul is not the pope? He wrote much more. He even shamed Peter as almost a superior. I believe in that sense Jesus had that conversation and connection with Peter because he was one of the 12. Paul was more aligned with Gentiles. Peter seemed to be “to the circumcision.” Which is the Acts 2 church. The Jewish original startup before the gentiles were invited in. And it was Peter given the sheet “kill and eat” vision not Paul. So i think even if this leans a bit more grammatically in favor of it being in some ways in reference to Peter being a stone to build on (in the apostolic foundation permissive sense). to would not at all lean in favoring a gentile-like pope but be far more grounded in the original 12 as a reminder: The Church Came From the Apostles…from the Jews.
However, looking it over again…wow we see Christ in context using two different versions of Peter’s name. I did not notice that before. Its 2 am and you really kept me up here late…lol. No worries. But this is kind of like a stream-of-consciousness overview of this. Like a hike into discover perhaps together mode. But if Peter has two different mentions…i can see why Vincent would lean away from the confession preference. Because he really is singling out Peter. Again, i would see it mainly as poetic mirror. So perhaps the more pronounced we make it about Peter, the more we see the mirror. We would also likely also see this potentially: Because Peter answered first…he won. And he struck it huge. It got the grand prize. Proving his leadership-type personality…but also God honoring him as a lead (as we see in Acts 2–not so much in Gal 2). And the 7 churches in Rev kind of stand out here to me where Jesus says what we win if we overcome. This might be a demonstration of overcoming more than Peter being a super foundation of the church. Even though the two main Apostles are Peter and Paul, the church we are told about is more through Paul than Peter. So whatever it might mean that Peter is the rock, means a 50% other than the import God might put on the foundation being Jewish – since the church narrowed our prophets from Israel…having none of our own kind of thing.
I don’t know ladies, does this kind of looking at things in this way change in impact perhaps some considerations on this passage? Or in specifics @blessed, who were the keys given to and what do you see about them? Thanks for the adventure…I’m pooped and off to bed. Blessings.
Thanks for answering Casey. Really appreciate it. You are quite a brave young ladie willing to weather war, famine, and whatever that mess the pale horse is plus thick and ripe persecution. Would that not be cool if the 6th seal turns out to be the rapture? Sometimes i’d like that because it is just so dramatic. Like what if its not a secret rapture kind of thing? If I remember correctly though you might be seeing us on next up seal 5? Blessings.
Sorry to keep you up Teren!
I can see there could be a fuller meaning to this (although not how the RCC sees it and develops a whole theology on a verse).
I thought this summarized it well:
Ouuuuuu, yes I agree. Thank you for edifying that. I hadn’t really delved into that either way.
I’m not Catholic and I didn’t know they believed that. It’s hard for me to see those verses as justification for a pope. That’s weird!
Iron sharpens iron ty
“When you are deeply hurt, no person on this earth can shut out the innermost fears and deepest agonies. The best of friends cannot really understand the battle you are going through or the wounds inflicted on you. Only God can shut out the waves of depression and feelings of loneliness and failure that come over you. Faith in God’s love alone can salvage the hurt mind. The bruised and broken heart that suffers in silence can be healed only by a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit, and nothing short of divine intervention really works.”
By: David Wilkerson
Could you unpack this? Explain what you mean?
If God is outside of time, and he planned the cross from the beginning aren’t we all the “body”/one in Christ?
One way to the Father? Right?
Hope that my question makes sense.
Thank you!
I don’t want to offend this ministry, so if anything I say is offensive…feel free to delete.
Overall, I’m a wait and see approach.
But in my studies…
I haven’t been able to find any definitive Biblical proof for seal one being the start of the “seven”; spoken of in Daniel.
I tend to think seals 1-5 are probably open.
I see “hell” (seal four) as nipping at the churches heels. Because the gates of hell cannot overcome the church. Hence why martyrdom of Christians follow seal 4.
1-4 are possibly related to the four beasts somehow, or the 4 kingdoms in Daniel, but I haven’t figured that out yet.
Seal 5 is probably the seal we are on. 5 is the number of grace. So here we are. God’s patience continues, but he withholds judgement and wrath (as the seal states itself) for a little while longer.
So we are on the cusp of the rapture in seal six (probably).
We are seeing what much of the world has BEEN seeing because America has probably become Babylon/the whore/evil and God’s protection/blessings are being removed.
That’s why many teachers are seeing the horses “shadow” it’s because they have been riding all this time. They are spirits possibly connected to the beasts/kingdoms.
The horses are probably the birth pains Jesus spoke of.
I think we are on the fifth seal now. But the seven years has probably NOT STARTED.
That is the “day of the Lord” that will begin the SAME DAY, we leave.
Just like Jesus said in regards to Lot and Noah…same day we are removed “they” will be destroyed.
But since God has an everlasting covenant with Israel, they will have a remnant saved through the tribulation. Gentiles will have to pay with their lives, probably.
The silence at seal 7 is because God is present with us (see Joel, Zephaniah).
Silence before the Lord and the supper of the lamb:
Source:
Remember a “day” in this instance is the final seven. The Bible defines a day differently. So the day of the Lord is probably the final seven.
To sum up what I believe…the first five seals are the perilous times Jesus warned of.
I don’t know if we will see a lot of persecution but recent events point to yes we will see an increase.
However, the hour of trial to come on the whole world is probably not seals 1-5.
The martyrs ask for God to judge…so judgement on the wicked has not begun yet. And that’s what we are saved from. God’s wrath on the unbelievers and wicked.
The only other interpretation that I’ve seen…and read is that if the rapture does not occur at the start of the “seven” it’s that life will be relatively peaceful, except in the middle east…and then there will be a peace accord, and things will be much like they are now with lots of (new normals etc )and going on as before, and then the false peace will be broken shortly after the rapture by the AC.
Then the rapture would be in the middle of the “seven” but still before the GREAT tribulation/wrath of God.
I just think that the seven years either starts after seal six or that the seven years is split in to two 3.5 years:
The first 3.5 being perilous times but not the great tribulation. Just regular trouble.
That’s my current view, and yes I have looked at many, including JDs and I think they all have merit, and I say we will know one day.
I’m not mad at any prophetic differences anyone may have. Also…I also think the rapture is next/very soon.
I sincerely hope the earliest rapture theory is correct. 
Please don’t attack me with torches and pitchforks anyone.
Great question. I was running by the theme of differences dispensationally. Perhaps also from reformed thought. There is a somewhat longstanding notion that Israel and the church (since they seem to have different timings) are two different entities.
It would have appeared that since King Saul had the spirit taken from him and David prayed “take not thy holy spirit from me” that the spirit in the old testament did not dwell but lingered with those saints. Were old testament saints regenerate? Were they new creations in the old testament (do we even know?) as seemingly distinct from the church? A lot of differences.
However a case can be made I believe that since all have been saved by grace through faith and since the old testament rituals were about Christ to come (and many pictures in the old testament were pictures of Christ in the new testament), they could well be the body of Christ. Amen.
“The spirit had not yet come” in the new testament before Christ’s ascension. So in what way might that be different when the spirit did come? It would appear the tongues of fire at Pentecost would be the fire pillar by night (of old testament guiding and representative of God’s dwelling in the temple) then that fire now is in each of us His temple. Plus languages implies a new kind of indwelling and power to all believers of all tongues and not just Israel (as to a special power anointing for kings and priest only in old testament previously) worlds wide (gentiles included) would be that difference.
Pastor JD understands the marriage supper to be during the tribulation. But as it is listed at the end of the destruction of Babylon the 7th bowl, it would appear to be at the end. Which could mean trib saints are at that dinner too. The timing works. Of course that would mean that the trib saints would also be the bride beaten up during the trib. Pastor JD would see the bride not beaten up. But if we remove our human understanding, it could be that this is the part of the bride that suffers more (like old testament saints that suffered badly would have too in ways). As well as the 1st-century saints were heavily persecuted as bride as well possibly.
So good job Casey. You have caused new thinking on this for me. I believe it is more likely we all are of one body (old testament saints, church, and tribulation saints). It never occurred to me before. Your honest approach and young fresh eyes of faith perhaps can see more clearly than what happens to some through theological seasoning. Blessings.
That makes quite a bit of logical sense.
This confirms many seditions I had on the subject but did not want to stir up a hornets nest by asking questions. Even if I had the right questions not sure I did.
I believe I will bookmark this on for study.
This would blow up the NAR and WOF doctrine that’s for sure.
Thanks and Blessings
I do not see them anyway as normal tribulation its complete deception from day one and more than normal shall suffer it seems to say. The whole 7 I believe is still Big T tribulation we have not moved out of the valley of the shadow of death until the 7 years of Jacobs trouble.
I believe it shows normal stops at the 7 and never comes back until its over. Its all the time of Jacobs trouble yes Israel will for a 3.5 time seem to be isolated from most but the rest of the world not so much.
For one reason Israel makes a covenant because they see a scourge coming their way that is already happening to the rest of the world.
NOTES FOR VALLEY OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH
Figuratively, the “valley of the shadow of death” stands for the perils of life, from which God protects believers.
I believe we are now still in the fallen valley era and the times are getting more perilous as we move into the transition.
Me Neither! Keep Looking Up 
Yeah I tend to think we are all one and let God sort it from there. Whatever God wants me to understand, I will. If God wills.
I tend to agree.
High praise, but all glory to God.
I have recently strengthened my belief that we are on seal 5, and spiritual attack in my life has been off the charts.
So maybe that’s a good sign. I really hate my flesh and sin nature.
The thorn in my side has been stabbing me, so prayers would be nice.
I think with everything going on the devils minions are on overdrive. I think they (1/3 of angels and Satan) will be cast out at seal six. And so the spiritual realm is about to break into the natural in a very abrupt way.
But for real…rapture soon. I’m so tired of fighting my silly flesh and just general oppression, and wow is the world really looking crazy with Israel now. It’s going down my brothers and sisters.
It has to be so close, please Lord.
Yes, I actually agree more with that view as well.
God bless you @anon28331375 and @TCC
I’m weary this week. Feeling that strong longing for Jesus to take us out of here.
500,000 protesting in Isreal. Fireworks.
Your are in my prayers Casey. Thanks for sharing Blessings.
@TCC thank you so much
I have been thrown back into the spiritual battle at full force.
Prayers deeply appreciated.
The spiritual realm is freaking out right now. So it seems.
