Thanks Dennis, @BayouBushi @YosemiteMountainMan
The understanding I have of cessationism is that the sign gifts stopped with the apostles:
- Miracles, healings, prophesy, tongues
These gifts per any individual having them as gifts of the spirit today in cessationism proper is understood to have been under “offices” of the apostolic age. Meaning that no person today has the gift of miracles, healings, prophesy, or tongues. I realize tongues will be seen in some circles as a gift still in operation today. But the main view of tongues from a cessationist perspectives is 1 Cor 14:20-25. When is that last time anyone saw that (in paragraph form) occur?
John Macarthur made cessationism popular again. John Mac would believe that there are not only no persons with the gift of miracles today. But that God does not do miracles today at all. It is not a miraculous age. Just providence (per his Calvinism). I would differ with that view in that if God wants to do a miracle or healing or whatever today He will. Amen. But that there are no offices or specific people who have that gift today.
It is understood in this cessationism view that the reason for the sign gifts was to authenticat the new testament. Once it had been completed and affirmed by that miraculous period, the sign gifts stopped. That is my view. But i realize some speak in tongues in semi-charismatic cirles (I used to be charismatic).
I understand in general people will have different views on sign gifts of the spirit today. I’m not the kind of Christian that would try on harp on that. Those who believe in sign gifts (or some of them) for today I believe are saved and brethren. I don’t really make it an issue though.
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I would not see word of wisdom though necessarily for today (although understand how it can be a bit vague in concept as to our approach today). From what i understand “word of wisdom” was the supernatural ability to cohesively make forming Old Testament and New Testament contrasts make sense to an age totally new to all of that. Having spirit filled wisdom today i would not see as the same as what word of wisdom meant in the 1st century because of its needed used functionally in making sense of old/new testament correlations as the New Testament was still being written.
Having said that, I would not say cessationism is false doctrine. In John Macarthur’s case i would see it as bad doctrine in the way he uses it. So i totally understand the concerns there. It can be abusive even at some level, amen. But cessationism proper i don’t think is bad or false doctrine in the slightest. I do have a good measure of consideration for those who hold views otherwise because we are brothers and sisters in Christ and should strive to find where we can have most sound union in Him regarding, amen.
I would differ though that “word of prophesy” as not for today. I understand how JD is looking at that. But i would see “word of prophesy” and “prophesy” as gifts as the same thing. Because when 1 Cor 14 was written, the new testament was still being written and would not be complete unitl the end of the 1st century pretty much. I appreciate Pastor JD’s desire to line “word of prophecy” up with scripture, amen. But this is why you would have heard from me for a couple of years now (prior to knowing this insight about Pastor JD) that certain watcher approaches run the danger of doing the same thing NAR does, just on the opposing side of it. This is a concern in the watcher world i have had for a number of years. Sometimes it seems like the way to understand end times is just see the oppposite of NAR. I understand that temptation, but I would nevertheless see concerns with that.
I just believe there is a danger to believe that when we speak as a layperson or pastor or whomever, and believe it has supernatural authority (even to line up with sripture), it then comes down to how much one can convince our views on what scripture does say to match up with. Another way of saying that is the word of prophesy can easily be used to affirm commentary on revealed written scritpture. When i talk about my 1st seal view i talk about it as a train wreck. Not as it being a word of prophesy. I believe it is likely most accurate, but if we say I have a word of prophesy and America will collapse and it doesn’t, we know that is not what that was. But if we don’t say it’s prophesy, but do say America will collapse or if it doesnt it is false light, to me, this is a way to be in danger of chief facing both waysism. Hedging our views unfalsifiable. This is why i like to be pronounced aboout my view. If i am wrong…i can live in my skin being wrong. Because i am here on this forum in case i totally might be wrong (in part) amen. But I think it is a danger in our age to have a version of charismatic lite and see it as supernaltural autority as a gift in contrast to NAR. Because to me, i say this in love and honesty and will try my best to work within this new discovery on our forum, its can run dangerously close to being somewhat of the same difference. I’m not trying to be difficult. These are important considerations though family. Blessings.
provides three Biblical reasons as to why it is that Bible prophecy is so controversial and even seemingly conspiratorial.
