February 26, 2023: Bible Prophecy Update -- The Only Way Any of This Makes Any Sense

[Gigi]

I would have to go to Louisville to view the film, but just watching
the trailer gave me discomfort.

Im not debating whether the Jesus Movement of the 70s was real or
not, but the films release at this exact time that “revivals” are
happening in the youth is highly notable.

NAR has said for years that there was a generation coming that
would be elite–Elijah Generation, Joels Army.
Naturally NAR is envolved in the promotion of this and believing
and claiming it to be the fulfillment of those prophecies.

We can see that it is the youth that is the target now for “revival”.
At one point Asbury placed an age limit to enter and partake of
the “outpouring”.

We have watched a new Jesus emerge the past few years.
NAR teaches that Jesus was just a man in right standing with
God–Kenosis. So Jesus is just a born-again man like us.
Mike Bickel (NAR Contemplative) made popular the “Jesus is
your boyfriend” understanding by mystacizing the Song of Solomon.
Voddie Bauchamp speaks of “a sissified needy Jesus” that is being
worshipped…

The Chosen has presented this false Jesus who looks like the
smiling Jonathon Roumie who is just a really cool dude.
Im sure that when many of these contemplative youth meditate
its Jonathons face they see. Thats how the mind works picking up
already planted mental images.
He Gets Us campaign further presents a picture that its all about us
and Jesus loves and accepts all just as they are. (universal)

When the already seduced youth flock to see the Jesus Revolution
they are going to catch the zeal of doing the same in their generation.
Being chosen to bring about about a revolution is pretty intoxicating.

Jesus Revolution is a warm, exilerating, witty, movie about a
national spiritual awakening.
IMBD movie Jesus Revolution promo:
The true story of a national spiritual awakening in the early 1970’s and its origins within a community of teenage hippies in Southern California.

Jon Erwin, director of Jesus Revolution:
How do you make Christian movies accessible for a wider audience?
We’re entertainers first. I want to make you laugh; I want to make you cry. There’s a lot of humor in the movie because of the performances and the whole “squares vs. hippies” thing. But underneath all of that, there’s this universal message about hope. That’s what’s so interesting about it. It’s set in the church; it’s called Jesus Revolution; it’s about a spiritual awakening in America. And yet people who have no affiliation to Christianity love this story.

NAR Jesus – the Spiritual Revolutionary, His Apostolic Revolutionists and His...

When a depraved world of non-Christians and multi-religions rave over
productions such as The Chosen and Jesus Revolution and they become box-office
smashes you can rest assured that they are not reflecting the true Gospel and the
offence of the cross.

Sometimes we have to back away from the tree to see the whole forest.

[GR]

You misunderstand me Casey, @CLE, I’m not looking for anyone to recommend this movie and I am in no way recommending the movie myself. The movie, per se, was not the point of the post. The ubiquitous judging without consideration of content is my concern.

@GR

If you’ve seen a movie, revival or series and know it promotes some anti-Christ idea… you should tell others. But to trash this movie based purely on the sinfulness of people connected is absolutely ludicrous.

If we disagree, Casey, that’s okay. In essentials, unity. In non-essiantials, freedom. BUT in all things, charity.

I stopped watching movies and most TV several years ago. I’m no fan of Hollywood. But at this point in my life I’m not willing to dismiss a documentary (of sorts) about a church group I belong to based solely on the sinfulness of the movie’s producers or actors. And I am grieved to see my brethren (who also have not seen it) trash it so readily. NOT talking about you in particular or any single individual, Casey. But there is a feeding frenzy mentality (among Believers) across the board— the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine, Asbury, this movie… you name it.

Can you not see it? Does it not weary you?

I don’t see much grace or charity coming from Believers lately. I see a LOT of anger, accusation and arguing, along with a good deal of judging without benefit of content.

It’s a win-win for the enemy.

EDIT: Just re-read your post Casey. I understand how you feel and agree using movies/shows to ‘preach’ is generally a bad idea.

Shalom.

[DallasT]

@GR

I don’t see much grace or charity coming from Believers lately. I see a LOT of anger, accusation and arguing, along with a good deal of judging without benefit of content.

It’s a win-win for the enemy.

I understand where you are coming from, and I agree.

[Susan]

I would answer yes to people who asked if I was a Jesus Freak but I wasn’t a follower of this movement. I was a teenager when Chuck Smith began his ministry and I listened to him a few times.
I was already established in my faith as a young girl and grounded in the Word so I was not convinced by friends that I needed a new experience, a second experience, a baptizing of the HS. Jesus was already so real to me, He was more than enough and I felt the HS teaching and correcting me and knew He was residing in my heart. And He was already my portion for everything, my Friend, Lord, Savior. I needed nothing else. Charged emotional events do not interest me.

[Blessed]

I am on the fence as to whether to watch the movie.

1. the trailer made me very uncomfortable
2. but many in evangelism circles are touting it as a great thing and they say the Gospel is preached.

A part of me wants to see if it really is the real Jesus portrayed in the movie. But it seems the HS is not pushing me forward with interest. Its almost like I am adverse to watching it. I have no interest really.

Perhaps someone here may watch and give detail in terms of what/who is portrayed.

[Dolly1]

Counterfeit Revival at Asbury

I’ve been following the Asbury story with interest and I appreciate everybody’s input. We’ve been looking at Christian colleges for my daughter, & one that we were seriously considering, is listed on the Lighthousetrails link provided by JD, as one of the colleges involved in the contemplative/emergent camp.
I don’t know a lot about NAR etc. but I am learning.
I’m posting a link by Brandon Holthaus, which I haven’t watched yet.
Appears he’s on the same page with JD.

[Blessed]

Some of these questions that Pastor JD posed (Dallas posted the ?s) to test the revivals and whether they are true or not are also relevant for the Jesus Revolution movie and He Gets us and whatever else.

I would add,-

• does it point people to the need to repent and confess belief in Jesus Christ as the only way to God?Do people agree with God and what sin is?
  -does it point to evidence of people’s salvation by their fruit? Are people becoming more like Jesus and being delivered from sinful lifestyles over time (or is there a casual attitude about sin and an ever focus on Jesus’ love)?
  -Is the Bible used as the source of truth and authority?

I pray to God this movie shows Jesus as truth and love not just love. If they are missing the major truths about Him it is not something to be celebrating. May God move people’s hearts for Him despite what they may or may not portray in this movie.

[CLE]

@GR

NOT talking about you in particular or any single individual, Casey. But there is a feeding frenzy mentality (among Believers) across the board— the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine, Asbury, this movie… you name it.

Hmmmm…I will admit to hearing a lot of people bemoan this, and I can only say I haven’t personally experienced a strong “feeding frenzy”, at least not in person. Some disagree less kindly on occasion of course.

But I don’t think anyone has said anything on this forum about sinners in the movie being the reason not to see it?

Seems false doctrine and ideas may permeate the movie? That’s what I’m hearing.

About Asbury/revival or entertainment my church leadership:

I also see more of an inability to discern the times, and rather a focus on easy things or “smooth” things.

Lots of itching ears.

They want so badly for good to come from this world they are (in my opinion so salted please ) they are setting themselves up to be deceived.

I’m referring to my personal experience here where I live. At my church.

They seem really enchanted with Asbury. It’s been the sermon for two weeks, basically.

And they are really enthusiastic about the chosen and now Jesus Revolution.

Asbury seems false, and they were so quick to get excited and last sermon our pastor said to “stop being skeptical and trust God”.

I do trust God. That’s why I’m skeptical! Lol.

I may be wrong, of course, about a lot of things, time will tell.

Also, I think I should add how much I respect our church leaders, leadership is HARD.

@GR

EDIT: Just re-read your post Casey. I understand how you feel and agree using movies/shows to ‘preach’ is generally a bad idea.

Shalom.

And yes…I was saying movies are not a good place to get your sound doctrine on the reg.

Stick to the Bible and sound preachers.

I also agree with what @Blessed said

@Blessed

I pray to God this movie shows Jesus as truth and love not just love. If they are missing the major truths about Him it is not something to be celebrating. May God move people’s hearts for Him despite what they may or may not portray in this movie.

[dlcv]

The whole Discussion threads all gone I checked. There were “heavy” discussions on NAR.

@GR, the elephant in this room is Lonnie Frisbee which Calvary Chapel intentionally omits him from their history as I learnt.

It depends whether Pastor JD willing to break the ice or go against the CC traditions of presenting the real beginnings and Lonnie influences.

[Cara]

I far as memory serves i think JD on many occasions on last few years said his church is stand on its own even though its called calvary Chapel…

[GR]

@CLE

I do trust God. That’s why I’m skeptical! Lol.

Well that put a big ol’ smile on my face!

I get it about your brick & mortar church, I do. And I’m so sick of everything Asbury— good or bad comments. A movement at another place is no substitute for God where you are. So I see how your church’s leaders have stars in their eyes and are ready and willing to ‘catch the next wave.’ And I’m really sorry for you guys.

I haven’t been praying in particular for those who will be deceived by Asbury, but I see it needs to be put on my prayer list.

I also think The Chosen is a vehicle of deception, but honestly, I had not connected all three (Asbury, TV show, movie). I tend to/try to look before I judge. Upon reading some of the articles Dennis @dlcv posted, perhaps I’m being foolish by not looking at the source. So perhaps CC is something the devil meant for harm and God used for good….

But I still think some of the things I’ve read on this platform and the refuge that trash the movie based solely on the sinful men (Frisbee and Roumie) connected to the movie is both short-sighted and unbecoming of a Believer. We should tell others of deceptions, but we should do that without becoming stumbling blocks in the process.

I also agree with @Blessed, a half-truth is a whole lie. The whole Jesus or it’s deception.

Shalom.

[anon74937514]

Thank you Shirley.

The trajectory of this topic of the Jesus Revolution is why I have distanced myself from this forum.

The issue I see that is a glaring red flag in The Chosen, in the Asbury Revival and in the Jesus Revolution is that they ALL are in some firm or another whether intentional or not swaying into the unbiblical ecumenism we are not to become a part of.

There is a mindset when a fellow Christian points out any concerns with these shows, people and their messages that they are nit picking, passing judgment on fellow sinners.
Yes!!! We know Greg Laurie, Lonnie Frisbee, Jonathan Ruhmie etc etc etc are sinners JUST LIKE US.

To dismiss the behind the scenes issues just because “ we’re all sinners” is a very dangerous attitude to have when trying to use proper discernment.

To beat the dead horse I keep beating ( poor thing is now down to bare bones it’s so far dead) , ASSOCIATIONS MATTER.

The associations are not just a “ I have an acquaintance that’s a Catholic, or a Mormon etc”. These associations are about Christians involving themselves with Catholics, Mormons, NAR,WOF and such to the point that now the Christian has been and continues to be influenced by these wayward groups resulting in this unbiblical unity and dismissive attitude we’re currently seeing.

If associations don’t matter and are a non issue but are just a matter of judgmental bantering then apologizing is in order to an enormous amount of people such as the pope, Jesse Duplantis, Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Andy Stanley etc. because they’re sinners too and God knows if they’re saved , right??? Soooo, then
how does one then, come to determine what is or isn’t biblically acceptable and who and who isn’t doctrinally sound??? By filtering through Scripture what they say, what they do , and WHO THEY HANG WITH AND ARE INFLUENCED BY:

If a very thirty Christian needs a glass of water but a dropper of pounding was put into that glass along with the water , that thirsty Christian can’t merely just drink the water and leave the poison behind. It’s mixed in.
The continuing influences ( poison) affecting the church / well meaning Christians ( water) ends up creating a toxic mix that is difficult if not impossible to separate ( drink only the water and not the poison ).

When a well liked pastor or teacher is mentioned regard concerning things, sadly some Christians get all up in arms. What has to be remembered is these well liked people are fallible and they are not immune to deception themselves.

Before, someone says… that’s true of every pastor and teacher …. Yes of course.

But where does one draw the line with them.

Back to the poison example:
Not everything one espouses should be considered poison ( heresy, false teaching etc).
But there are certain things that should be placed into the poison category.

Let’s say there’s a category of water ( what’s ok) and a category of poison ( what’s not ok). This is where we get into the divisiveness because people’s convictions may not put the same issue under the same category. Some may be on the midline of being a water and a poison. This is the worst because it’s such a mix of truth and error.

For example, most of us would probably put Kat Kerr and Kenneth Copeland in the poison category as it’s pretty obvious much of their doctrines are unbiblical. In other words most won’t “drink” it.
Most would put say JD and someone like Andy Woods in the water category despite not maybe agreeing on everything. ( the disagreements are not regarding a heretical teaching but more of a differing of opinion on some things. ) In other words, it’s “drinkable “.

Then you have the midline where it’s between a water and a poison. This is where I personally put things like The Jesus Revolution, the Asbury revival, Greg Laurie, Charlie Kirk and such ( just giving a few examples and not going to list a bunch).
These are such that have some things biblical ( water ) and some things poison ( not biblical and not just a differing opinion ), in what I’d consider the trickiest category. My concern is not the salvation status if these people because they say they are and that’s between God and them.
My concern is the influence and possible damage being done not just to Christianity but to sincere truth seeking people , whether saved or lost , who could lack discernment and be confused and misled down pathways that lead them into the very things we don’t want then to head towards : the doctrines such as of the NAR, WOF, 7 Mountains and the ecumenical undertones from The Asbury Revival, The Chosen.
And the worst end of the path iwhere a Christian, new or not ends up is coming to believe that anything having “ Christianese “, or a Christian vibe is therefore Christian and thus biblical.

This is why individual research and study is imperative when another person brings up concerns which is also necessary. We are told to be watchful for deception and to try the spirits etc.
Sadly, doing so is seen as a personal attack on the person and not their doctrine. And ironically, the Berean doing their research is then attacked for living out the following verse:

But if we do that and sense or find something off, are we to keep that to ourselves? Or are we share it with another who then must be
their own Berean ?

I’d hope we’d lovingly warn ( share) those things with our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. What they do with what’s shared is their prerogative and what convictions they end up with is also their prerogative.

Hopefully my 2 cents thrown in here doesn’t offend anyone or cause their ears to smoke. If so, I’ll kindly put the reminder out to “ agree to disagree “ respectfully

[Gigi]

@Stephmerm
Hi my friend.

Ive found the good thing about forums is that people share their opinions.
The frustrating thing about forums is that people share their opinions.

Some of us have strong unpopular messages. I have morphed into being
a black or white person when it comes to scriptural truths.
I cant tolerate shades of gray which distort or misleads and I have an obsession
to point it out.

Unfortunately thats not always a road to popularity, but that is good cause
it keeps me humble (after I process my annoyance).

Pastor JD said Sunday that it used to bother him when people disagreed with
him, dont exactly remember his answer, but now he doesnt. Im striving to
come to that point where I dont take reactions and words from others personally.
Being on this forum has domesticated me somewhat. I used to be a real ear-chopper
like Peter.

This forum is a wonderful place and opportunity to release the heavy burdens we
carry with the onslaught of deception happening. If we have done that to the best
of our ability with wisdom and state our concerns in a way that honors God
and sheds light on some of the enemies tactics, then that is the real lasting
satisfaction and reward. We must all earnestly contend for the Faith in whichever
way we are called.

We have a pastor-watchman and that is rare and such a needed blessing that
many dont have in these times.

You have a real gift of discernment, Steph. Im so happy to see you back posting
on the forum. It is a wonderful place for you to share your gift. Dont let anything
silence you.
We need all the voices to shout against the ever increasing darkness.
Dont worry about responses. Delivering your message is important. Its reception
is not.
I, also, unapologetically deeply agree that it matters whom people associate with.

Love you, sis.

[Blessed]

Perhaps this could be posted here too. David Wilkerson, run.

RUN! Carter Conlon and David Wilkerson

[CLE]

@GR

I haven’t been praying in particular for those who will be deceived by Asbury, but I see it needs to be put on my prayer list.

Yes! Please. Bless you.

@anon74937514

The Chosen, in the Asbury Revival and in the Jesus Revolution is that they ALL are in some firm or another whether intentional or not swaying into the unbiblical ecumenism we are not to become a part of.

I agree.

@anon74937514

The associations are not just a “ I have an acquaintance that’s a Catholic, or a Mormon etc”. These associations are about Christians involving themselves with Catholics, Mormons, NAR,WOF and such to the point that now the Christian has been and continues to be influenced by these wayward groups resulting in this unbiblical unity and dismissive attitude we’re currently seeing.

Right on.

@Blessed gonna catch up on prophecy updates then check that out.

Keep reading your word y’all that is the best thing we can do. Encouraging one another with THE truth.

As @Gigi said, there is only one truth…and sometimes that mindset might not make us popular, and that’s okay. Jesus did say that would happen.

If we are in the Word we will be ready when persecution comes. In whatever form it comes.

MARANATHA!

[Loretta66]

I just want to say No you didn’t make my ears smoke @anon74937514 The water, the poison and the in between is just how I see it you just say it so much better than I.
I haven’t watched the Jesus Revolution or seen the trailer so I can’t comment. I may watch the trailer but I find myself wondering why with the Asbury “Revival”, the new left behind movie and now this Jesus Revolution all coming out at pretty much the same time.
Just makes me The He gets us thing puts in in mind of something similar that went around in the late 80’s or 90’s just can’t put my finger on it. Maybe it’s the What Would Jesus Do (WWJD) but I don’t think that’s it. Seems to me I heard the same slogan He gets us before this year.

I started to watch the Chosen just before the third season came on so I figured to watch from beginning and catch up so to say. I watched several shows and threw my hands up and said to myself That’s not my Jesus, I don’t know where they got this one but theirs is not the Jesus I know and stopped watching. I know brothers and sisters in Christ who watch it and like it, which is why I figured I’d take a look at it. I don’t understand what they see in it. It wasn’t just how they portrayed Jesus it was also the disciples I know from the bible there was conflict between them at times but the way they made poor Matthew out to be well let me just say I would have said he’s gay or wimpy.

Some of the people you name in the poison and middle ground I have watched and stopped watching long before I even found pastor JD. Most just want your money for “planting seed”. Granted some are not easy to spot they are very good at deception.
Love verse 2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
Amen
To answer your question please do share your 2 cents as a fellow sister in Christ I’m glad your watching and pointing out these concerns.

[TCC]

Great to see you dear sister. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and concerns. If you have not seen, you might be interested in the video below. It was the most comprehensive in general I recall seeing and the first to bring to attention how Asbury University is egalitarian.

(7) Asbury “Revival” Examined, Rick Warren’s Church Ousted From SBC - YouTube

Although my views are divergent from the typical flow of this forum, I consider this forum a dear place of where we have been through a lot together and where able share concerns as well as get a sense of where our dear family is at. It is nice to know you may in the future respond to @ mentions of your name…so yeah…i might be calling on you from time to time dear sister knowing this. I know this forum misses you a lot as do I.

In addition, you might find it interesting to check out a Thursday night video Pastor JD did as an interview. I understand your views and concerns will likely align with our forums focus of Matt 24:4 as relating to the ending of the age of grace and of the beginning of tribulation (whereas I would see its focus on the midpoint of the tribulation), but this interview brings out, I believe, some helpful considerations even within Pastor JD’s personal circle. He does involve himself with those outside his parameters of conviction which I find comforting in being a man of consideration. And I believe brings a bit of additional context to our cultural moment.

JD Farag Recent Interview

In any event, great to see and hear from you. And hope you do visit from time to time.

I would note for clarity’s sake (and in no sense intending to offset anyway in which the Lord works in your heart and doth bringeth you here to our forum of course) some general overall observational differences of mine (although I am in much agreement with the concerns of many here, as well as yours, in the dangers for the body of Christ at large).

@anon74937514

And, as JD pointed out there is no biblical basis that a great / mass revival would take place prior to the return of Jesus. However, that’s not to say that there can be a revival of sorts in individual people whether that be an unbeliever becoming saved , or a Christian getting right with God or become more driven in these days.

Amen. I would agree with you here. I read one article, I think from our dear sister Gigi, that stated that “revival” is not even a biblical term (or perhaps concept), and I would tend to agree with this. I believe what occurred during the 1st and 2nd Great Awakenings in our country had to do with a number of factors but overall did seem to be something that helped people focus in biblical spiritual directions. So in that sense I would see anything that comes along and does that is good for any nation. But I would just see that as a stirring people up in that way. Both of those were planned but also genuine movements in various people’s hearts. Having said that though i do see associated NAR dangers with Asbury of course.

So yeah, I don’t see anything about a revival in the age of grace. We do see that in the tribulation but under massive duress. However, many might also view the tribulation as a time not many are saved. I believe the book of Revelation shows otherwise…but yeah i guess if it could happen in great tribulation it could happen in the age of grace. But if so we are not told, it is so very good to be skeptical.

Having said that where we might differ in the trajectory of potential events is our concern with a great awakening or mountain mandate. I get the concern. And it is a great teaching tool what won’t bring on the return of Christ. If anything, it will bring on the tribulation…lol. So if those NAR types are excited about that i guess yeah have at it. But the trajectory of my view is that even if NAR ascends to their mandates, in no way will this be a stage for Christ to have His cue to come back. I do believe in the possibility that that sort of thing could be a ground swell of the 1st seal the church may likely witness.

But I believe Gigi humbly mentioned how she might be seen as too passionate of having over concern. And even though we may differ on how things unfold, I believe her concerns (as well as yours) are far more tethered to pastor JD’s ministry than mine. Which is fine, being that i could be gravely mistaken. But if not, I could see a potential where NAR mandates could take place (or at least they would claim it was them perhaps) and it actually be a forming of the 1st seal. In that view, well, is the 1st seal of God? Possibly a hard and nuanced idea to approach. Either way though, i believe as our focus is on the true gospel, winning souls, and not getting caught in the snare of agenda 23 or agenda 24 or any body else’s agenda (including allowing a great wakening language inform the church on how to view things–as God would transcend even as He has with Asbury), the church can be very instrumental in our last days, amen…well at least that is how I would think upon it.

One interesting thing to perhaps note on what I had previously coined as “irregular hermeneutics” might (and i do stress “might”) be an interesting observation of my above text (hopefully with some sentiment of an interesting weird-science zinger to make the read worth this pop-up book style “fantastic” voyage is: What if we are alive at a time of mirror? We know that the 144k accepting the missionary mission in the second half of the tribulation brings many to Christ. But it is not until scattered Israel (from AC pursuit during the tribulation) will Christ return:

Mattt 23:39 For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

But like what if it might be helpful for our age to consider perhaps that we might be witness to man’s best attempt of mirroring Matt 23, as if? Like what if NAR succeeds in mountain mandates to fake (since they think it will call Christ back as well) what only Israel could qualify for at her time when the Sign of the Son of Man cometh? And perhaps in that bookended sense, a signal to our age of not the return of Christ but the blessed hope and the tribulation (which is the militant parade of 7 years destruction leading to His return)? In other words, can such a fake posture of NAR be an emblematic echo of the latter real cry from Israel that does actually bring Christ back? In that sense, there might be some perhaps sense in which looking for the hand of God transcending the evils of NAR be of hopeful and helpful watch focus as well perhaps. Well, yeah, just a theory but it kind of can make sense on perhaps as many levels as deception also seems to be also layering. Just a thought.

@anon74937514

There is a way and a need for Christians to discuss these important issues but it’s just not happening as much as it probably should be because it’s a touchy subject and unfortunately offends some instead of opening up respectful dialogue.

I agree that our forum would serve a greater end time help to the body of Christ having been left as was. As perhaps as counterintuitive that JD Farag interview might be, one thing it does display is his willingness to consider sides that don’t necessarily agree 100% with his. Which for the moment (in light of a disheartening forum downsizing), at least provides a living room deeper view into a pastors heart. Blessings.

[Susan]

Pastor spoke of this new but old New Age religion. I did a little research today and to me it appears there is no coincidence this movie coming out during the same time the Asbury revival plus the Age of Aquarius entering on March 3, 2023.
This Gen Z reminds me of my generation coming to age in the late 60’s and 70’s where they thought they were about to witness a new age of peace joy and love, it didn’t happen. Perhaps satan thinks now is the right time, 54 years later.

[Blapp63]

Thanks Dallas i was wanting to get this exact thing

[TCC]

I appreciate the update. And I agree with Pastor JD to steer toward scripture. But would also like to offer a gentle reminder in the scope of our views on that. I came out of the discernment ministries which champion themselves as the paragon of right biblical view while espousing Calvinism and Lordship Salvation at unprecedented levels. These are the sound and sober voices for much of Christendom in the US. And they would agree with the sentiment of “bible only,” verses opinion. But what they see in the bible can be very different than what is exegetically accurate. And these are our countries biblical discernment thought leaders.

In such a climate, I have always thought it valuable to of course have our convictions, not strawman the opposition, and responsibly inform the body of the breadth of biblical depth upon considerable interpretation. I am a proponent of, where possible, offering the body considerable ranges of scriptural intent of biblical meaning within reasonable orthodoxy. I don’t believe I have seen any church actually practice this. And i guess to a degree it is always up to our individual walks to do our own homework.

And although i am very thrilled that Pastor JD does consider other views and even engage publicly with them (as per his recent video interview…amen) I would interject, lovingly meant, that Matt 24:4 seems to have most import toward false Christ’s and false Christian movements, amen. More so than perhaps a mere blanket of “all things deception” as we seem to expand it into today. And although this may appear to be ultra biblical, exegesis hath no organic fear of being exposed. As i would see as good and sound tradition to also consider this verse may well be limited in its scope toward false Christian influence (or false true Christ influence–such as Israel will face in the second half of the tribulation). And in as much as we may not consider these potential weighting roots upon verse meaning and nuance, it could dangerously enter the sphere of also mere opinion. Especially in building upon it an entire paradigm shift of age of grace to tribulation age intent. In scholarship, this is no small difference. It would just be good too, to consider that some of our conviction take aways (not entertaining the weight of potential nuance upon a verse) can have the adverse affect. It is the lack of consideration in honor of exegetical scriptural intent that would unfortunately have me downplay NAR concerns…the exact opposite effect desired in updates. I would be much more onboard with NAR concern if we too had as much concern with Matt 24:4 as well as Matt 24:24 (something clearly mentioned in context of the middle of the tribulation). Yet in our day and age seems to have been bumped up to actually be not just the beginning of the tribulation but now placed within the context of God’s very own age of grace. In all honesty, there is a spirit in me that wishes to share a deeper NAR concern with you’all. And although Pastor JD’s shared concern for other voices goes a very long way for a trust factor toward him, amen, It is precisely my black and white hands down severe concern for scriptural accuracy, and the treatment and consideration thereof, that would hold me back from joining so headlong into anti-NAR bandwagon. Although y’all, my spirit is actually willing. But the word seems to hem me in to recognize it is not subject to becoming an artifact of temporary interpretations.

The concern I would have is a simple one. We see all around us a pop-cultural of sorts in Christianity. And we see problems on all sides of that. Regardless on my view of 1st seal accuracy, or my exegetical views in general, I just would hope that it might make sense that if we see the church all around us playing foot-loose-and-fancy-free with the word, that we would want to be less about that. I realize at first glance (and with some measurable cultural affirmation among general pastors in varying denominations) that Matt 24:4 and Matt 24:24 are great marketing concepts for our day. But i can’t get past the serious and sober concerns that confine biblical exegesis from temptations in how it plays upon our walking by sight, which mitigates against sound biblical practice while perhaps just running with what might have entered into Christan pulp culture and believing it is not mere opinion.

Just for the record, in hopes discussions in the future might holistically weigh upon such important matters to our Lord and Savior, but the church as a runaway train with NAR jockeying for the driver seat to me is too close to making opportunity for eisegesis–and that perhaps it feels so right to just do so. Exegesis is not a feeling, nor is it rightly divided by sight. If we are not able to consider how we might be allowing our emotions to be influenced by how we look at the word (while at the same time perhaps not even knowing the range of nuance of such serious concern upon exegetical orthodoxy with Matt 24 verses) it makes it even more problematic especially in light of what we see are the issues with the age in general around us. Now there’s a black and white unpopular hard stance that won’t go anywhere…lol. But just the same…I’m willing. And watching, and hoping too to join you’all more so no the bandwagon. Blessings.