I think I just answered my own questionđ ( with @pbandj help. )
Ahh⌠the treasures of truth and intimacy and joy!
I will give you the treasures of darkness And hidden riches of secret places, That you may know that I, the LORD, Who call you by your name, Am the God of Israel. (Isaiah 45:3 NKJV)
https://www.youtube.com/live/zdedujR_xOc?feature=share
STEELING THE MIND BIBLE PROPHECY CONFERENCE
I just happened upon this video that had some interesting thoughts on treasures and rewards. Dr. Gene Kim, I donât think Iâve heard him before.
Hi Teren,
They will appear to believe that Jesus died for our sins but in reality they DO NOT fully accept nor teach the true biblical concepts of penal substitution and the Christus Victor ( new to me but thanks for increasing my knowledge) concepts.
What is extremely frustrating with Eastern Orthodoxy is their messy almost hidden mystical explanations of what are actually straight forward biblical concepts that they twist to not mean at all what scripture intended.
Seriously, I have to read and reread many of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese explanations because they are so filled with confusing untruths.
They will state some truth but then I explanation, they butcher what it really means.
Let me explain the basic tenants of salvation and atonement by them based on my experience attending the church and my own personal research:
They do teach the Trinity, Christ is God. But they teach salvation is a continual process and that grace can be given more to a person that does the church sacraments.
I actually decided to leave the church fur good after our priest gave a talk ( sermon??) saying that the purpose of Jesus coming was for us to restore us to a unity with him âŚ. This sounds good but then he went on to explain theosis.
Theosis is the idea that we can become divine. They will deny it means to become a god. HOWEVER, years ago I took some of their free teachings pamphlets and one literally said the same thing the Mormons say : what man is God once was, what God is man can become.
They state that man is coworker with God in salvation. That man cooperates by doing good to attain salvation. Theosis is the end result of salvation if we cooperate as we are â reconciled â back to the way we were meant to be in relationship to God.
They baptize babies and absolutely teach that water baptism saves.
I have never heard in their church in 30 years a sermon on sin, that Christ took our punishment and that through belief in him one is saved and thus eternal secureâŚ.Why? Because they ignore â it is finished â in that Christ did it all. Instead , we have to co work with him to reach the culmination of salvation that is theosis: that if becoming divine.
Please donât get trapped into believing this is just their way of expressing sanctification. They equate it to the evangelical concept of sanctification but it is not the same.
Unlike Catholicism, they do not teach a purgatory, but they do teach a sort of limbo state in which the soul waits for the last judgment to be reunited with the body. THERE IS NOT A SEPARATE JUDGMENT FOR BELIEVERS ( judgment seat of Christ), or GREAT WHITE THRONE
( nonbelievers). They teach ONE judgment where the resurrected body is reunited and based in the life lived is either sent to heaven or hell.
Hell is not a literal place in their doctrines. It is more of a condition where the person is aware of Gods love but is so far removed, they canât experience it.
The article above is the best answer to your questions to me :
A few things that Iâll point out from it:
They define â Divine Justice â as not a legal term which imo is definitely a legal term if we are relating it to salvation and Christâs sacrifice for us and that we are justified via Christ being substituted in our deserved place.
They say it is â that perfect original order of the world where things are living in accordance with nature as it was intended â.
It says â when you are on the Wayâ, which is doing right works and learning proper order of things , you gain life .
It says , He invited us to become Coworkers with him in this great restoration. That the redemption of the world is precisely restoring it to its original state.
It discusses a super essential Power that not only empower all things but is in all things. This is an â energizing powerâ they define is God. And that our actions filled with this energizing Power are both 100% ours and 100% Godâs which reconciles our actions with God within ourselves.
Another teaching I watched by one of their YouTube offshoots called â Be the Beeâ taught that God was in everyone and everything. I canât find the exact video but it basically implied that partaking of say stream water was drinking in God.
I am not a theologian nor an expert in the Eastern Orthodox teachings but I do know there is so much wrong and heretical with MOST of what they believe.
If you are more interested check out their Be the Bee YouTube channel. They have very short teachings on their doctrines BUT BE PREPARED TO POSSIBLY GET VERY UNNERVED by what youâll hear.
Also the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese website allows you to research a topic and get their belief on it. Note: above warning again though. ( the YouTube channel and their website are so overwhelming when as a Christian, you can pick out their errors, that it becomes very draining).
To summarize in case I didnât explain well enough aboveâŚ.
Jesus died but for us to reach theosis , the ultimate salvation, as we are reconciled to him by a return to the natural order of all things through being a coworker with Him in the process resulting in what is defined as Divine Judgment which reconciles/ returns everything and everyone back to God in accordance with what was original nature before Adam and Eve sinned.
Coworker man + Godâs energy - Divine Judgment = theosis = reconciliation of the natural order = SalvationâŚâŚâŚ. In laymanâs or Stephanieâs terms 
âŚ,
*Jesus didnât die to save us from our sins and eternal punishment in a literal hell but he died so that with our cooperation, Divine Judgment (chais of nature ) could negated resulting in a return to the natural order of all things and our divinity within. â
Here is a snapshot of their Holy Water heresy as one example of unbiblical ridiculousness:
Here is a snapshot summary of theosis :
Here is a snapshot of some of their view of after death :
So summary # 2 
Is simply no, they do not hold a biblical view on
Penal substitution, atonement and thus salvation.
Pardon me as I take a mental break for a bit 
Yes, relax a lot. This 2 mins video explains Orthodox
That is a good starting point summary.
My biggest concern is that the specifics on many of their beliefs require a deep dive into each individual topic. And this is why I believe most do not think twice about their religion.
Unfortunately, most in the Greek Orthodox Church do not know really what the church believes and Iâm convinced if they actually understood what the church doctrines were, many would leave. I attribute this to their lack of personal scripture reading, their reliance on the priest to â translate â scripture, their focus in mostly just the gospel books and not all of scripture, them placing their traditions on par or above scripture , and their lack of correct biblical interpretation in part because of replacement theology among other things.
Although they do have many beliefs akin to Catholicism, differences in some teachings could almost be considered even more heretical.
Itâs is extremely difficult to know the things I do and have a husband who doesnât. But Iâve learned over the last few years to know better when to speak to him about their doctrine and when to remain silent. I truly do see the Holy Spirit at work in him but also in me.
Anyway, thanks Dennis for the video. I do wish more pastors would address Eastern Orthodoxy as much as they do Catholicism in the context of what constitutes true Christianity.
For anyone interested, a great man of God , Richard Bennett has done the best explanation of Eastern Orthodox heresy.
He also has done numerous teachings on the Roman Catholic Church doctrine having been , himself s priest for 22 years before coming to the truth in the true Christ.
The following is him explaining the errors in Eastern Orthodoxy error in a concise and understandable way.
Today is 3.16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
@Jon , you mentioned 2 weeks but this pastor mentioned one minute, so how?
The Rapture of the Church is the next event on Godâs prophetic timetable. It could happen at any moment. In this video, Dr. Hixson shows how Scripture teaches the imminency of the Rapture and then explains what we should be doing in light of the âany momentâ return of our Savior. What will you be doing one minute before the Rapture?
Orlando Summit Ps. Brandon sermon:
The other sermon you can go RHCBakersfield Rumble/Bitchute for Laodician issue:
Evil hinting something here:
Thanks Steph for all the helpful details. Is this why your husband is not as on fire for the Lord as you are? If you donât mind my asking, is that church where you guys met and maybe where his heart never exactly left? In any event, what is praise worthy is that you seeâŚand he has you. 
Blessings.
Yikes. I think I understood the theory of raising rates for the first time recently. Still it would seem to have the power to crash the economyâŚwhich they are obviously interested in continuing. Blessings.
I think you got her going again actuallyâŚlol. On the real, her heart of fire for Him needs no promptâŚbut was fun to say. Thanks, brother.
So I believe he is not on fire or even concerned really about much to do with anything biblical.
Like Catholics, most Orthodox do not crack open the Bible and study it for themselves. They are taught that although they can read the Bible the interpretation is from the heads of their church typically from the council to the archbishop and ending at the priests.
Iâm all my years at any Greek Orthodox Church we went to, no one bright a Bible, and I mean no one.
Contributing to lack of scripture study , the Orthodox Church doesnât believe in a rapture. They are amillennial and teach we are in the Millennium now. Revelation is never taught being seen as allegorical and not futuristic as well.
They are also of replacement theology. Add in that they rarely speak of sin, and teach that salvation is via baptism into their church which they define as The True Church , itâs a recipe for being lackadaisical about not only whatâs going on in the world, but in true evangelization of souls.
As I explained with their only focusing primarily on the 4 gospels, they lack the ability to link the OT , and specifically the history and role of Israel and the Jews to the NT and therefore the correct understanding of not only the reason Jesus came and the work he did resulting in our current grace age and how the future of a rapture and 7 year Tribulation is a reality in regards again to the role of the Jews as there is still the coming 70th week of Daniel.
So this lack of proper discernment of scripture
and lack of correct interpretation ( rightly dividing truth) absolutely is the main contributing factor why their church as a whole and individual members , as my husband, who do not understand what talk he â hoopla â is about with thisâ bizarreâ talk of the rapture, coming Antichrist, cashless society, 7 years of hell in earth etc.
I met John 32 years ago through my oldest brother.( I was living him and my sister in law became my mom and I had had a rough relationship. I was struggling with severe anorexia at the time and working on getting my LPN degree and just needed some space from my current home life )
They worked together and my brotherâs FIL had passed away and John ( my husband) who was friend with the FIL was invited to the funeral. My mother needed a ride to it, so John took her. ( I did not know him at that time ). My mother in her conversation and hopes that I wouldnât be an old maid , although I was only 19 talked to John about me and he told her heâd like to meet someone like that ( you know the proverbial good Christian girl who never gets in trouble. ).
So he ended up coming over to my brotherâs house one Thanksgiving and I met him. He fixed cars and my car had an oil leak.
I happened to end up in an accident totaled this car. So the same night I was in the accident, sitting at home with a broken rib and hives from what had just happened, the phone rang. My sister in law answered and I heard her jokingly say, well she permanently fixed her oil leak ⌠I knew it was John. She said he wanted to talk to me and during that call he asked if I needed to borrow a car to use and if I wanted to go out with him . I took him up on but offers 
I found out on our first date that he was Greek , Greek Orthodox and we talked about their core beliefs. Because up front explained I was a Christian and that I had certain expectations of who I dated , being a Christian one of them.
He explained as I was questioning their beliefs that they believe in : the Trinity , Virgin Mary, Jesus death, burial and resurrection and after our conversation I thought , ok, weâre good.
I started attending a Greek Orthodox Church in Boulder Colorado that he was a member of and the rest is history!
When we moved tomorrow Idaho , he had found the current church he is still a member of but I left , The Assumption of the Virgin Mary you n Pocatello, about an hour from where we live.
I attribute my Christian schooling and yes, my mother who took us to baptist churches throughout my life to why I have at least some discernment ( and because Iâve become skeptical over the years and have to research everything Iâm told 
)
I know thatâs a long story and probably TMI 
but itâs kind of a fun story to relive because I know God has us together for a purpose.
Anyway thatâs a detailed answer for you, so please accept my apologies !
@dlcv
Hi Dennis
You asked a very good question of Jon @Jon The answer is a simple one. Jon canât count.
Wow. Thanks Steph. I appreciate your thoughtful reply. After hearing from you over time about your husbands indifference, it seemed fitting to ask if the Orthodox church way a thinking might be his as well. Thanks for sharing your heart and the beautiful slice of life about you. Being able to fellowship with one another on this forum is a helpful and blessed outreach of Pastor JDâs church.
Iâm more right than he is lol. Eventually I will be right that it will have been two weeks before the rapture happened.
I can three! I mean twoâŚerâŚtoo.
How you doing down in Cali with the snow? You finally getting some clearing happening?
So I wanted to share something I was researching today and itâs linked to my conversation recently with @TCC under this thread âŚ
Iâm sharing because while it involves Eastern Orthodoxy, it also has to do with Eastern religions and the influence of the mystical aspects of these religions in the Greek/ Eastern Orthodoxy and of course why we need the be on alert for mysticism in any church !
She I was listening to a teaching by Grace Institute for Biblical Studies on Buddhism.
The speaker mentioned something that returned me to something about the Eastern Orthodox concept of theosis ie: salvation by reaching divinity with God in which all are returned to the natural order of creation.
The speaker while focusing on Buddhism, mentioned Hinduism as the first formed from the second. But he started explaining the belief called moksha. It is their term that is comparable to our term in Christianity of salvation. So alarm bells went off because it seemed eerily similar to Orthodoxyâs concept of salvation.
So I started doing some research:
Moksha is defined as freedom and liberation from suffering and it is superseded by something they call Bhakti which belong to â the highest level of spiritual attainment⌠for everything is in Godâ.
Articles I read about Buddhism and Hinduism explained it did reach into Greece. So I wondered, âdid eastern religions influence Eastern Orthodoxy?â
Iâm sharing an article ( quite well my but so telling). It explains how although they donât believe exactly the same , the church ABSOLUTELY was influenced and holds to some similar ideologies from the Eastern mystical religions of Buddhism and Hinduism.
If anything, this reveals that many of the Eastern Orthodox beliefs are not biblical and that thereâs a â whitewash â of their actual terminology to make it appear biblical.
Itâs a testament to how the paganism of the East
( including of course the greatest originator Babylon) shaped specifically both Catholicism and itâs separated â spiritual sister, Eastern Orthodoxy)
Here are some screenshots of Buddhism/ Hinduism teachings that are pertinent to what Iâm trying to show ( and ti save anyone interested from having to read through endless information):
Here is the article:
You can Rant or Rave about Trump all you want, but the truth behind the Deal of the Century is that itâs not really âTrumpâsâ dealâŚ
Someone else wrote it.
(1 Thessaolonians 5:3)
You are like angelâs breath. Well for several reasons: for your true kindred heart in Him, for your willingness to be involved in the difficult discussion, for your spirited enthusiastic love to guard the heart of truth in HimâŚbut here in this instance â the Lord has a very real purpose for you here. Beyond what concerns me, it is apparent as you have demonstrated throughout this forum for months. But concerning me, Steph, this is critically central something that kind of blindsided me latelyâŚlike a derailing freight train with toxins crashing into a silicon valley bank and town or something. What you just brought up here is an exact x-ray of a situation I am encountering. The timing is super ripe. Iâm sure this material and thoughtfulness on your end is helpful to many hereâŚbut it is a radioactive plate of superfood dropped right into my lap during something I never thought to, or even cared to, get all up into.
WHEN A TRAINâS PERFUMATED TOXINS DANCE WITH A MONITARILY LEAKY SILICON BANK
There is a youtube channel (one of two Iâve favored) over the years that have been helpful to ween me off of Calvinism that has moved onto helping the church grow according to Eph 4:16. I am very encouraged by that as over the years many people have left churches and donât have one or trust one. That channel, to me, has a lot to offer in healthy interaction associated with coming out of cultish thinking. And for that I loved its offering. That channel even interviewed at length a woman who came out of GCC recently and made Calvnistic twists in operation there public. This is the first time Iâve seen anyone do that. Blew my mind awayâŚi have a GCC sister nowâŚlol. Awesome. AnywayâŚ
âŚlately, that youtube channel has interviewed someone from the Eastern Orthodox church. And now this born-again ex-Calvinist is starting to seriously concern me. Currently, I am trying to get clarity from him on a very central issue. There are actually several things that the channel looks at that I agree with (not the Eastern Orthodox partâŚthat is new). But lately, they have been mentioning âthe logosâ found within other wisdom literature. Now it sounds to me like the guy is confusing the Classical Greek âlogosâ with the John 1:1 logos. So Iâve reached out to try and help encourage a brother not to spread that kind of stuff. Even if he does not see it like thatâŚthe confusion looks too confusingly similar to that.
I have a few outstanding comments posted there. He did cover one of mine on a video and called it âmoralizingâ and would just see that I need to grow up. Theyâre very much into growth stages there. My other two posts to him are a bit stronger finding myself defending Col 2:3 Jesus as the One in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. And that there is a huge difference between logos John 1:1 and 500 BC Classic Greek logos. One way he is leaning is that since we donât have the original bible docs, perhaps what we think the bible is saying is more churchianity than truth. In a way, brother man has a bit of a point. But Iâm finding that telling him the word of God is spirit and the spirit of the word in the bible is active and living and transcends the logos in other wisdom literature is met with âshut up.â So, yeah, I can totally see how the Eastern Orthodox influence on the guy is massaging biblical truth claims right out of his heart. Its so sad to watch (like a slow-motion trainwreck).
So your info really does show just how meshed into the theological arteries mysticism is in the Eastern Orthodox church. Its funny, the channel Iâm speaking of champions itself to not be ârivalrous Christianity.â But in my being very gracious and having different views I get placed on a billboard and scolded before the whole channel. Iâm kind of a sucker for attention. But I am more interested in talking with that guy to come to an understanding. Not that he would, but just that he mightâŚbecause he has a lot to offer. So on a non-rivalrous Christian channel I get rivaled and apparently the zeitgeist has spokenâŚso I guess we can all move on now that I got that out of my system. How chilling to the bone that learned indifference is a thing in the church, and this confuses me as to whether I am more saddened or angered. Steph if he saw your stuff, youâd just get a labelâŚbut other than thatâŚheâll talk with you about everything as a perfect gentleman. My goodnessâŚits like I have rabiesâŚwell I probably doâŚbut he doesnât know thatâŚlol.
The way this ministers to me (you) is it is God reminding me of His awesome beauty and unique claim upon our hearts in his word. And even though a case can be made that the church can become way too rivalrous and in that sense possibly stuck in certain ways of seeing things defensively altogether not healthy (possibly neuroticâself-included), it should chase us deeper into Him and His word not some understanding of Classical Greek logos synthesis. And that this is happening to a channel that matured out of cultish thinking (I guess the other antithesis extreme opposite) is very troubling. And again, I guess well lands into my sense of Laodicain age thinking. Even hints of the Kabala seem to be entertained on that channelâŚIâm like, âWhat?â lol. So it is no small stream in the wilderness that your refreshing heart comforts mine at this time, greatly. Blessings dear sister.
