Do you think there is a possibility it is the two witnesses? There is 0 commentaries that see this perspective. Yet looking at the Greek structure of 2 Thes 2:6-7 it looks very possible. It seems to bear out in scripture too.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 - το γαρ μυστηριον ηδη ενεργειται της ανομιας μονον ο κατεχων αρτι εως εκ μεσου γενηται
https://bit.ly/3hotJlJ Greek Interlinear
Ultimately regardless of what it is, God’s Holy Spirit will be involved. Even if it is something else, the Holy Spirit will be the likely influencer for God the Father to give it such power and also to pull it back. There may be autonomy to something else given. But even if it were given autonomy, it would have “no power” without the Spirits influence no doubt.
In the Greek, as expressed in some versions too, there is no “He” in 2:6 or 7. And “one” in English has a few meanings. It can mean single. That one. Or it can indicate an entity or person as sanctified or separated out for a purpose. He is “the one.” In that sentence it does not mean 1, but chosen. Or it could read: “…only there is one [entity, presence. thing. something, protector] restraining .
Were the two witnesses around during Paul’s time? I think they were:
11 Then I said to him, “What are these two olive trees on the right of the lampstand and on its left?” 12 And I responded the second time and said to him, “What are the two olive [f]branches which are beside the two golden pipes, which empty the golden oil from themselves?” 13 So he answered me, saying, “Do you not know what these are?” And I said, “No, my lord.” 14 Then he said, “These are the two [g]anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth.”
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
You know what is cool about that (4:11 / 11:4)? Besides being a mirror image it implies the two witnesses were stationed 500 years before Paul…and certainly still there at the time of Paul.
I know this not a certain answer, that the two witnesses are the restrainer. But beyond the NIV when we start to look at actual conceptual meanings behind the words used (which is what translations do), we see that a case can be made for the two witnesses. At least as candidates.
To arrive at the Holy Spirit because He is the only one existing at the time of Paul is a good reason. But He’s not the only one. On that note, Michael was too. I don’t think it is Michael. But I don’t think Daniel 12:1 disproves it though. In some ways…that is “your commentary,” no?
Just some things to think about. Those that wrote commentaries many thought they were doing the same as you suggest (many of them). They can’t all be correct though. Would love your further take when you have a chance brother. Blessings.
PS–Got Questions.org agrees with your take. At least part of it. To me it is not so clear that “one” specifies “a” person. But it is something masculine. I could see it work for the two witnesses…this would require deeper Greek text discovery for accuracy…at least that would be helpful here. But what could be going on too is that in 2:6 = 2 witnesses and in 2:7 perhaps it is the Holy Spirit as “sponsor of them.” Like i said, ultimately it will be His power one way or another.
Not sure if you consider it as Got Questions does as the church. In that, are they not doing the same thing I suggest here? But if it is the church…then who is the “man of lawlessness” being revealed to? The world won’t know who he is until he demands worship. Not when he is making a deal with Israel. The only way that would mean “reveal” is if the church is still here for that. I am pretrib rapture…but i’m good with hanging out that long at least that long
Thank you for this message. I am going through similar circumstances where half of my family (incl in-laws) are getting it, half not. It’s starting to tear the family apart. I just found out my brother is essentially going to keep us from my nieces (my mom’s grandkids)/he and his wife if we aren’t vaccinated. That they will only see us outside, masked and distanced indefinitely, bc he won’t put his kids in a position to “kill mom”. That means half the year is basically out due to weather here, no Christmas’, no indoor gatherings/celebrations or hugs. Even though they are vaccinated and given they expect kids as young as 6 months to be getting it by fall, they will most certainly vaccinate the kids. How am i going to explain this to my young daughter? How am I going to make it without my family together? He is also very against Christianity now (fell away years ago), so we can’t reach him on that level either. It’s been a VERY rough few days since that message. The disdain and outrage he had towards me, that I would “be so selfish” as to be concerned about potential side effects of the shot. Like you, I have health issues and I react to everything. But no- no understanding or sympathy. You are either with the vaccinated or you’re against them and the enemy. I’m struggling to stay positive. I pray for all my fellow brother/sisters in Christ who are going through this very situation. Unfortunately, it’s only going to get harder and harder. Issues today are not just dividing people, they are destroying people and their relationships. Goes to show the power evil has over the world right now. It’s like the lights are on but no one is home or listening. They won’t even concede to reasonable points. It’s all or nothing. We are in very dangerous times for the church. Media has made us enemy #1
My hope is that Christ will support me through this, because I don’t think I could make it without Him. I have no idea how anyone does without Him right now. It’s no wonder people are losing it. If you don’t have the hope of Christ, what do you have?
God bless and I truly hope and pray you’ll stay strong and know you have support from your online church family. This forum really needs to stick together. We need other believers now more than ever to keep our sanity.
Amen! I totally agree that this will get worse and we need each other in the forum to stick together to help us maintain our sanity. God Bless you and your family. Thanks for being so open. Many of us are going through the pain of division in our families. The vaccinated people see us as misguided and selfish.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment of sin; of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. John 16:7-13
If ever there was a time when Truth was denied, it is now.
If Jesus could send the Promise of the Father (Acts 1:7-8; 2:1-4), He can certainly call Him back. When the Holy Spirit leaves this wicked world, we who are His living temples, will go with Him. I believe the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit.
Today, May 16/17 is the same Jewish holiday on which the disciples received the Holy Spirit – Shavuot / Pentecost. Jews have been asked to not gather at the Western Wall to celebrate the holiday today.
While my heart is breaking for the situation in Israel, I rejoice at the thought of our Blessed Hope. Maranatha!
Forum Update from TWI:
Announcement of Update to Forum Code of Conduct
Latest Code of Conduct (CoC/Forums Rules)
Latest Terms of Service (ToS)
@JackN My question to @Twi was, not being the sharpest knife in the Church. Does : Oops, there was something left in the Code of Conduct that wasn’t meant to be there! Our sincere apologies for any confusion this may have caused!
As an explanation, we decided not to disallow false doctrine/teachings on the forum that we couldn’t expressly define in the Code of Conduct (the already long list would then become a novel! lol). Although this was initially a rule, added in November, there were a few reasons it just didn’t do what we wanted it to…
We are allowing false doctrine/teaching, unless it is expressly defined in the Code of Conduct.
Does not to disallow = ALLOW ???
Just an old man’s inability to clearly read the instructions, life is very tricky these days, everywhere.
The rule we ended up using to replace this was
Genuine questions and respectful discussions about the Bible and the specific teachings of this ministry are allowed, however polemics against this ministry’s sound biblical teachings are not.
So, in conjunction with the rest of the Code of Conduct, it doesn’t mean someone can come preach or promote falsehoods. It does mean that in some cases members will need to use their God given discretion and judgement. I understand the feeling of needing to protect those who just may not know better, but above that I trust that the Lord puts all things to work for His glory, even here. The more we add of our own inadequate laws, in this place that will never be anywhere near perfect this side of heaven anyway, the less we are trusting Him. It is a leap of faith… And of course if things need to be adjusted down the road I pray that will made clear to us.
Every time I hear of a family being split over a “vaccination” it breaks my heart.
While it helps to know I am not alone in this struggle, I truly wish I was the only one facing this issue. It’s an inside hurt you just can’t explain.
Thank you for sharing with me.
Honestly, I just keep praying and telling Him, He is all I got.
Praying for you and your family. Please feel free to reach out to me any time you need a prayer or just to talk it out.
God bless, sister!!
/quickly searches for the username @Anathema
|n.||A formal ecclesiastical ban, curse, or excommunication.|
|n.||A vehement denunciation; a curse.|
|n.||One that is cursed or damned.|
fun fact, my grandma was excommunicated from the Catholic church in the fifties, because she married someone who’s not a Catholic. many many years later, my mom told her that she could re-join if she wants, because the Catholic church no longer uses that as a reason to excommunicate. I love my grandma’s response to that: “no that’s okay, I’m comfortable in my relationship with God.”
If this so called vaccine becomes in the future a part of the Mark of the Beast I am not wondering, why its splitting families. In the Tribulation everyone will be killed, when he/she is not taking the Mark.
Fait without works is dead
If I saw demons in flesh and one putmthis black upside down triangle on my neck can god stil,reach, me? Mark disappeared but God told me he didn’t mean it to happen but I’m still,curious theses we’re demons or,possessed ppl idk
I believe that Salvation is a gift. I believe that rewards are earned. I do not believe that Salvation = rewards. Rewards are based upon your works. Salvation is based solely and completely on Jesus completed work. Salvation is received by faith alone. Your works determine your rewards, not you salvation. The two are often confused.
Yes and Amen!
A Dead Faith was never really a Faith to begin with.
Has nothing to do with working for your salvation.
It’s an idiom that calls a “Professed Faith without any core change in the individual” a Hypocrisy and an Oxymoron.
Correct. For now it isn’t the mark, however, it is heart breaking it is dividing Christians, family and friends.
FWIW, Andy Woods is doing a series on the book of James in his mid-week service. I find some of the things he’s bringing out quite interesting. The book of James really isn’t about “getting saved” at all. It’s about, “now that you’re saved, let’s talk about how to become a useful person in the Lord’s service”. James is talking to a group of people who are already saved. I’m sure they questioned, “Now what?” And James says, “I’m glad you asked.” The apostle John does a splendid job of bringing people to belief in Jesus and coming to full Salvation. James picks up where that leaves off.
It is my opinion that using James to insinuate specific works being required for salvation is a misuse of the book of James. Again, my opinion. Others may disagree.